WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
In Scotland they have two lots of red tape to do ... surely that must be where the extra is going
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cost of charge point installation
- Thread starter slonger
- Start date
In Scotland they have two lots of red tape to do ... surely that must be where the extra is going
If installers are charging around £500 (conveniently the value of the OLEV grant) for a basic/straightforward wall charger install then this sounds like a total scam!
If I’m not mistaken the OLEV grant is designed to subsidise BOTH the install and purchase of home charging equipment.
If I’m not mistaken the OLEV grant is designed to subsidise BOTH the install and purchase of home charging equipment.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Yes, you are mistaken. It only covers the Charger, and nowadays doesn't cover all of that cost (as Chargers are now required to be "smart" which wasn't a requirement when OLEV started)
Its £1,000 of which £500 for the install and £500 for the charger, and then the OLEV grant is £500 (so basically covered cost of Charger) ... all round figures. more expensive chargers available, and more complicated installations too.
Since OLEV came in requirements for Charger (to become Smart) have increased complexity / cost of chargers, so OLEV typically no longer covers all of the charger)
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Also people, very rightly, keep referring to the ‘expensive’ (~£450) UMC cable.
It’s just a piece of cable with a 3 pin plug at one at one end, a car connector at the other end and a small box of electronics in the middle.
Any reason why it is so expensive?
Is it because they CAN charge this much and get away it?
UMC - Ultra Mega-Expensive Cable
It’s just a piece of cable with a 3 pin plug at one at one end, a car connector at the other end and a small box of electronics in the middle.
Any reason why it is so expensive?
Is it because they CAN charge this much and get away it?
UMC - Ultra Mega-Expensive Cable
MrBadger
Badger out
The UMC is basically a wall connector in an inline package. ie it allows the car that requires Mode 3 charging, ie comms between the charging point and the car, to use a 13A socket et al. This is referred to as Mode 2 charging, which is different to a basic Mode 1 cable that does not handle any comms. Mode and Type are not the same thing. So its not a 'piece of cable with a 3 pin plug at one at one end, a car connector at the other end' as that 'small box of electronics in the middle' is doing some important stuff.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
All sorts of places sell them. You reckon they are all "in" on this conspiracy? Its an open market place, someone will make them cheaper if they can - Capitalism's rule will apply: "halve the price and sell to 20x as many people"
I was specifically referring to the Tesla UMC.
Are you saying that there are third party UMC cables that fit Tesla also similarly priced?
Electric Vehicle Homecharge Scheme guidance for installers: version 2.3
https://assets.publishing.service.g...ile/772619/evhs-guidance-for-installers-v-2-3.pdf
States...
Eligible Expenditure 2.1
This grant scheme provides a grant of 75% (up to a maximum of £500 including VAT) of the capital expenditure which would otherwise be incurred by the householder as a result of the purchase and installation of a chargepoint at a domestic residence (i.e. 75% of the price to the customer of the installation and equipment). It is expected that the customer will fund the remaining cost. If a third party (e.g. the car manufacturer or installer) wishes to fund the remaining cost or part-fund on behalf of the customer then this must be separately identified in the EVHS Annex D grant application form.
2.2 Eligible expenditure consists of:
Cost of unit
Electrical components
Civil engineering works
Labour costs (for installation)
Hardware costs
The VAT incurred by the customer
Site survey works (when leading to a completed installation)
The customer does benefit from the OLEV grant but perhaps not as much as they ought to due to inflated labour costs.
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Yes, for example this type of unit at £358:
Portable Mode 2 16A 62196-2 EVSE with Female Plug and 13A Domestic Plug
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Afraid so ... assuming a quality cable in both cases.
I agree this has been the case, but I'm not sure it is outright gouging of the customers as you propose. There is definitely hassle for the installer in doing the red-tape paperwork. Such that some people install non OLEV because (Non-OLEV Charger + Install) is cheaper than having an OLEV Charger installed, albeit usually also because of some User choice of wall charger.
My recollection is that OLEV grant has not increased, but the price of OLEV chargers has (because of increase in the requirements for OLEV compliance to have a "Smart Charger"), so if that is right even if it originally covered 75% of Charger + Install that is no longer the case.
But that said I'm sceptical that the grant ever covered 75% of Charger + Install. From memory my OLEV install 4 years ago the grant was equivalent to the price of the charger (waters were muddied then because Tesla also provided a subsidy for wall charger install [back then Tesla wall charger was not available in UK], so I may be mis-remembering because of that)
I went with the Tesla WC (purchased on eBay, one of many sellers that had received one as a referral perk). In my case, the install cost was about £250 higher going with the TWC (all in, including my cost for the TWC) versus an AO Mini using the same installer (which would have qualified for the grant). Seemed close enough to me that I opted for the TWC. It does seem the extra paperwork and associated hassle of the grant process does get reflected in the price. How much of this is down to the installer seeing an opportunity I can't assess. But I presume that does play a part in many instances.
The only benefit is it looks slightly better when not being used. I thought long and hard about tethered vs untethered and went for tethered in the end due to the convenience of not having to get the cable out of the car every time I want to charge.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Aesthetics - if that is important then "retractable" might be best for "tidy" and also "convenient".
People knicking your juice when you aren't there (I'm doubtful ... parked outside your house for hours on end!). Isolator switch perhaps? But if that is indoors then have to go indoors to turn on/off.
That's my view too. I reckon it would be a right hassle to have to fish out the cable and connect it each time ... particularly putting it away again when raining. Also Wear and Tear on the "socket" shoving the Plug in and out each time too (its not like a 13 AMP plug, these things are reasonably chunky, but the socket doesn't have to be flimsy of course ... but "cheap" usually is ...)
One "cheap" route is a Commando socket and EVSE cable, procured from cheapest source. Some things that need to be done to make this "pukka" ... such as a Commando Socket that has integral lock, so cable cannot be removed when power is on ... but for a DIY route, and with suitable care, I reckon that would be the cheapest route. This is best suited to garage installation, rather than exterior ... and even then the whole question of the right sort of trip switches, earthing stakes, and all that stuff comes into play ...
Personally I'd prefer to have a Sparky do it in order that all the right decisions are taken. I used the one recommended by Tesla (actually the second one they recommended ... the first one had gone bust
... bare in mind that way back then very few Tesla sales, so Tesla just unaware that out in the sticks where I live their Approved Installed was no more ...), but I do have a friendly sparky who would be perfectly competent to install a non-OLEV Wall Charger, and would certainly only charge me T&M, let me route the cable myself / dig trenches / anything extra needed like that.
navt
Member
"Dumb" Rolec supplied and installed for £309 net (£809 w/o grant). SE London. Still not used it though.
navt
Member
refjamie
Member
I had a blue commando socket installed for £195 all in. M3 arrives hopefully by the end of the month to test it out!
A few other (minor) benefits to non-tethered:
- You can charge visitors with cars that have the Type1 connector (assuming they carry a Type1-Type2). This used to be a significant consideration, though Type1 cars are now a dying breed.
- More choice over the length of the cable. Admittedly you could solve this by removing the supplied cable and fitting a custom one, but socketed means you can do it with off-the-shelf parts and no electrical skills.
- Can replace the cable if damaged without electrical skills. Probably more a benefit for commercial/heavy-user sites than at home.
- You can use the EVChargeKing cable with the Tesla button. Again you can do that with a tethered unit and a screwdriver.
That really shouldn't be cheaper, and I haven't seen much evidence that it actually is. The installation part of a dedicated charger install is identical to the Commando socket (unless you cut corners), so it would only be cheaper if {3rdparty-portable-EVSE} + {commando socket} costs less than a basic non-smart wallmount EVSE.
The OLEV grant is a different matter - that requires that the difference between a dumb and smart unit plus the admin costs of applying for the grant are less than £500, which they probably are but not by much. There's also the fact that the grant requires you to use installers on the official list, which means they are unlikely to be local, compared to using anybody competent if done off-grant.
Were you happy with the installer, and if so, would you mind letting me know who it was? Thanks!
