Cost of FSD to start increasing after May 1st

[dmurphy]

For goodness sake....Its not about the price of the car!!!

Tesla's advertising on their website said something like this: ( in the tone of an ICE car vendor fire sale ).

-----
"Hey folks: Get EAP now for $3k. Get it now while its hot. "

"Get it now because if you don't and wait until after you buy the car it will be $5k. Hurry - Get it now. "
------

Folks scrambled around and scraped up money / sacrificed other things in life.

Then they purchased EAP or AP...who cares what its called...AND NOW.....AND NOW....its not $3k during the purchase or $5k after purchase.
Its less.

People are saying …."Hey...I didn't have to scrape up money and sacrifice like I did. Unlike Tesla said...the price didn't go up..it went down". "It wasn't a fire sale.....they didn't tell the truth". "They tricked me". "I could have waited". "Its only been 5 months....didn't they know the price was dropping"?


ALSO..

An ICE incentive is a "sale" to get people in or to move inventory. Then when the sale/incentive is over...the price goes back up to the original price.
Tesla isn't doing that.
They are forever changing the price of the item. Its not an incentive or a sale. Its not a temporary price reduction.
Its different than an ICE vendor incentive.

Those are the issues.

Nobody lied... it did go back up to $5k. And then changed again. And will continue to change. I think what's troubling folks is looking for static pricing in a dynamic world. Tesla is changing it to drive demand - I get it.

It doesn't matter what the product sells for before I buy it, or after I do. It only matters what I pay for it, and whether I derive value from that.

I don't see the problem with changing the price of their items - why does the MSRP have to be static? Why would it have to be "List price minus $X?" Why can't they just change the price?

The value of an item doesn't derive from list price - it derives from the net value to you.

What's bugging folks is trying to figure out if they got The Deal or not. And that's based on comparison vis-a-vie what others paid.

In a traditional sales model, we look at what we paid for a vehicle vs. the MSRP. The further from MSRP we are, the more we think we got The Deal.

But in Tesla's model, instead of adjusting prices off MSRP, they change the selling price directly.

That doesn't jive with our brains, because there is no MSRP to baseline against. The selling price *is* list price, and is dynamic.

It's different, I'll grant that. But different != bad.

If this is a problem, then Tesla could flip to a traditional sales model.

"Special deals available today on FSD! Come see a sales specialist now!" (FSD MSRP $26,000. Discounts TBD after spending a half day sitting in some sales schmuck's cubicle drinking bad coffee.)

Would that be better?

 

[Garlan Garner]

Nobody lied... it did go back up to $5k. And then changed again. And will continue to change. I think what's troubling folks is looking for static pricing in a dynamic world. Tesla is changing it to drive demand - I get it.

It doesn't matter what the product sells for before I buy it, or after I do. It only matters what I pay for it, and whether I derive value from that.

I don't see the problem with changing the price of their items - why does the MSRP have to be static? Why would it have to be "List price minus $X?" Why can't they just change the price?

The value of an item doesn't derive from list price - it derives from the net value to you.

What's bugging folks is trying to figure out if they got The Deal or not. And that's based on comparison vis-a-vie what others paid.

In a traditional sales model, we look at what we paid for a vehicle vs. the MSRP. The further from MSRP we are, the more we think we got The Deal.

But in Tesla's model, instead of adjusting prices off MSRP, they change the selling price directly.

That doesn't jive with our brains, because there is no MSRP to baseline against. The selling price *is* list price, and is dynamic.

It's different, I'll grant that. But different != bad.

If this is a problem, then Tesla could flip to a traditional sales model.

"Special deals available today on FSD! Come see a sales specialist now!" (FSD MSRP $26,000. Discounts TBD after spending a half day sitting in some sales schmuck's cubicle drinking bad coffee.)

Would that be better?

I don't know why its so difficult to understand that its not about how much anything costs.
Its not even about the price of things changing.
I have never complained about the price of the car changing. Why? Because they never promised that it would go up or down with "GET IT NOW" type of rhetoric.

If someone says to you "Hurry up and buy this because the price will go up IMMEDIATELY if you buy it later" and then it doesn't ..and even goes down on top of it.....

Call that what you want. I call it lying.

Am I a tesla fan - absolutely!!! But that doesn't mean they are perfect.

Oh and BTW not only did the price go down...right now "AT THIS MOMENT" its free. Owners with No AP - Thoughts/Plans/Speculation on What Happens Next

Their website should have said...."BUY Autopilot NOW because very soon its going to be free".

 

[Garlan Garner]

Nobody lied... it did go back up to $5k. And then changed again. And will continue to change. I think what's troubling folks is looking for static pricing in a dynamic world. Tesla is changing it to drive demand - I get it.

It doesn't matter what the product sells for before I buy it, or after I do. It only matters what I pay for it, and whether I derive value from that.

I don't see the problem with changing the price of their items - why does the MSRP have to be static? Why would it have to be "List price minus $X?" Why can't they just change the price?

The value of an item doesn't derive from list price - it derives from the net value to you.

What's bugging folks is trying to figure out if they got The Deal or not. And that's based on comparison vis-a-vie what others paid.

In a traditional sales model, we look at what we paid for a vehicle vs. the MSRP. The further from MSRP we are, the more we think we got The Deal.

But in Tesla's model, instead of adjusting prices off MSRP, they change the selling price directly.

That doesn't jive with our brains, because there is no MSRP to baseline against. The selling price *is* list price, and is dynamic.

It's different, I'll grant that. But different != bad.

If this is a problem, then Tesla could flip to a traditional sales model.

"Special deals available today on FSD! Come see a sales specialist now!" (FSD MSRP $26,000. Discounts TBD after spending a half day sitting in some sales schmuck's cubicle drinking bad coffee.)

Would that be better?

Let me ask you and everyone a question.

We are in the midst of this discussion even as we speak.

Its a question about FSD.

Tesla says that on May 1'st the price of FSD is going to go up tremendously.

Do you think it will?

Lets say that you want FSD and are scraping together the funds to get it before May 1st.

What's the price going to be on May 15th or 19th or June 1st? Anyone care to place a friendly wager?

Will the price of FSD be less than it is today? or greater? in June?

Remember...its not a feature that is even close to being fully deployed....so...there isn't an amount of time to enjoy it yet...( just like AP was when I purchased it ).

 

[dmurphy]

Call that what you want. I call it lying.

But it was indeed accurate. At any given point in time (prior to AP being included in the vehicle price) - the price you would see when clicking “Buy now” on the in-vehicle dashboard was higher than the price would’ve been had it been ordered with the car. Sometimes by as little as $500, but more. So that part is accurate.

Now, it no longer is necessarily the case, this is correct. I don’t call that lying - that’s awfully cynical - but the entire cost structure for AP is different now.

Am I a tesla fan - absolutely!!! But that doesn't mean they are perfect.

We agree on this wholeheartedly!! They’re charting new territory and will make mistakes. No question there. The big question to me is can they survive and thrive through all of those mistakes, or is one of them going to be the cannonball that sinks the ship? I’ve now got $56,000 wrapped up in a bet against that!

In fact I’d wager that we agree on about 98% of All Things Tesla. I just don’t feel anyone was lied to. Maybe they’ve swiveled the way AP pricing works, but changing situations don’t always equate a lie.

 

[dmurphy]

Let me ask you and everyone a question.

We are in the midst of this discussion even as we speak.

Its a question about FSD.

Tesla says that on May 1'st the price of FSD is going to go up tremendously.

Do you think it will?

Lets say that you want FSD and are scraping together the funds to get it before May 1st.

What's the price going to be on May 15th or 19th or June 1st? Anyone care to place a friendly wager?

Will the price of FSD be less than it is today? or greater? in June?

Remember...its not a feature that is even close to being fully deployed....so...there isn't an amount of time to enjoy it yet...( just like AP was when I purchased it ).

Sure, so here’s the thing.

What they call FSD now includes the things that used to be in EAP. So, for cars bought after EAP went away, yes, FSD exists.

To be honest, if EAP still existed, I likely wouldn’t have bought in for FSD. But they hooked me by tying NoAP and Summon to FSD.

Now to address your pricing question ... yep, come May 1st(ish) - I expect FSD to cost more. Maybe as much as $500 or even $1000 more. That said, I sure don’t expect it to stay there. But for some period of time, I suspect it’ll be higher. Probably until right before Memorial Day, when the other car companies have big sales.

If I had a crystal ball, they’ll drop again before Memorial Day weekend, and stay down as Tesla tries to push as many vehicles as possible before the 7/1 fed tax credit cut.

Just my opinion, worth all of what ya paid for it.

 

[Garlan Garner]

But it was indeed accurate. At any given point in time (prior to AP being included in the vehicle price) - the price you would see when clicking “Buy now” on the in-vehicle dashboard was higher than the price would’ve been had it been ordered with the car. Sometimes by as little as $500, but more. So that part is accurate.

Now, it no longer is necessarily the case, this is correct. I don’t call that lying - that’s awfully cynical - but the entire cost structure for AP is different now.



We agree on this wholeheartedly!! They’re charting new territory and will make mistakes. No question there. The big question to me is can they survive and thrive through all of those mistakes, or is one of them going to be the cannonball that sinks the ship? I’ve now got $56,000 wrapped up in a bet against that!

In fact I’d wager that we agree on about 98% of All Things Tesla. I just don’t feel anyone was lied to. Maybe they’ve swiveled the way AP pricing works, but changing situations don’t always equate a lie.

Let me ask you a question then.

If Tesla says that they are selling a widget and that it cost $1 and that price is only good at the time you purchase the car.

Once you purchase the car it will cost $5.

How long do you think that $5 price should last in order for the statement to be true? 1 day? 5 min? 1 month?


Because NOW you can purchase that widget for $0.50 and you have already purchased the car.

 

[Garlan Garner]

But for some period of time, I suspect it’ll be higher.

There you go....you hit the nail on the head with that statement.

What is the qualifying period of time to keep their statement true?

Its totally subjective.

How long does a Tesla statement have to last for it to be considered TRUE?

 

[dmurphy]

There you go....you hit the nail on the head with that statement.

What is the qualifying period of time to keep their statement true?

Its totally subjective.

How long does a Tesla statement have to last for it to be considered TRUE?

To make it factually true, I don’t think it needs much time at all. A day or two? But that said .... I get the sense (and I could just be projecting) that the marketing “plan” is just crap. I don’t think they were planning to turn AP loose on 4/11 for some number of months. I suspect they looked at the daily sales-out report and said “you know, let’s see what happens if we try this.” Hanlon’s razor applies.

Intent is key. I don’t think changing facts makes for a lie. A lie in my book is deliberate; I don’t think any of this is actually deliberate.

 

[rainforest]

If you place an order at a traditional dealership, and then someone comes in the next day and orders the same vehicle, but gets a better price, do they go back and adjust yours? No.

I’d say Tesla is more than fair.

Why is everyone worried about what others pay for their vehicle? Either you’re OK with the price and click the button, or you’re not. End of transaction.

Because Tesla always promotes the fact that it’s cars never go on sale, you can’t negotiate, and everybody pays the same price. On top of that, they tell people that Tesla’s maintain their value the same or better than ICE cars. Because of the above, “they are different from traditional dealers”.

But none of the above have been proven true because I see on the forum all the time that people are getting deals. And the constant price changes ensure that nobody “is paying the same price” or is able to retain some resale value. My 3 is now CD$8000 less than what I paid.

I think the issue is not the fact that there are price changes which most people will understand. It is the wild swings that are happening, seemingly at whim and without much planning. This makes it hard for people to budget, plan, and time their purchases. Take FSD for instance. Not one feature has been launched for years, and they’re trying to convince people to fork over thousands to buy it. Why not just have the package ready and working before selling it, like was the case with AP1 when it first launched?

 

[jebidia]

Well at least he’s logically consistent. If he truly believes that FSD will be hands free in 6 months then $5k is way too cheap. Keep in mind that the competition’s autonomous vehicles aren’t reliable enough yet, aren’t for sale, and probably cost hundreds of thousands of dollars a piece.

Competitions aren't reliable enough? Compared to what? Tesla's promises? Auto Pilot is cool and works pretty well but would I call it "reliable"...never. don't drink too much kool-aid, let's be real. I would put the chance of Tesla having truly self driving, city and highway, cars by the end of the year at 0%. He's confident he doesn't need LIDAR but just about everyone else is saying you do. I'm hopeful as I am a model 3 owner, but we need to keep things in perspective. Raising the price of something that doesn't exist and may never in this current form is nearly on par with a snake oil salesmen...We'll see.I didn't buy FSD but if he can make it work I will gladly pay more, until then I watch.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Competitions aren't reliable enough? Compared to what? Tesla's promises? Auto Pilot is cool and works pretty well but would I call it "reliable"...never. don't drink too much kool-aid, let's be real. I would put the chance of Tesla having truly self driving, city and highway, cars by the end of the year at 0%. He's confident he doesn't need LIDAR but just about everyone else is saying you do. I'm hopeful as I am a model 3 owner, but we need to keep things in perspective. Raising the price of something that doesn't exist and may never in this current form is nearly on par with a snake oil salesmen...We'll see.I didn't buy FSD but if he can make it work I will gladly pay more, until then I watch.

I was just saying that charging only $5k for a system that you think will be "hands of the wheel" in 6 months would be crazy.
We're in complete agreement that it's not going to happen.

 

[Frank_398]

If you believed at the start of your purchase you could have added Fsd into your loan assuming most of m3 owners have one. If you do not believe in fsd do not buy it. Arguing over if Tesla should or should not raise prices is a deaf point. If I sell 5000 m3's with fsd today and I need to retrofit 30,000 already made with fsd by swapping GPUs that are not free I will lose money as a company.

 

[Mhycki]

Admittedly I am new to the Tesla family and did a lot of research before purchasing to be fully aware ... I have not had any of the issues a lot of others have had and have enjoyed my car greatly.

As someone on the fence with FSD .. probably more FOMA than anything else .. it is hard not to be cynical based on all the comments of failure to deliver in the future ...

I looked at my auto pilot upgrade and it has FSD listed with a price and one of the features is listed as follows:

• - Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really.

How is that not misleading .. it is not under the later this year category . My understanding is you need to be 150 feet away from the car ..

It is hard not to feel like the sizzle is more than the steak as it is in most cases with life ... but with the company track record and all the chaos in prices ... you think they would look to be a little more "non sales" when it comes to language like this.

 

[KenC]

Didn’t much care for it at $2000, I’m surely not going to buy it at $8000.

 

[Frank_398]

My car can still not park itself in my garage since it's on an incline it can only halfway backup by itself out of the garage. I am worried., not at all I know the car will develop over time.

 

[-motts-]

I was thinking of upgrading to FSD, but at 12k (5k EAP + 8k FSD), no way we'll spend that much.

Maybe if we update to a Y we'll get it, but we'll never have it on our 3 if its an additional 8k

 

[Knightshade]

I was thinking of upgrading to FSD, but at 12k (5k EAP + 8k FSD), no way we'll spend that much.

Maybe if we update to a Y we'll get it, but we'll never have it on our 3 if its an additional 8k

EAP has not been for sale for a while now- might want to check your actual price in your tesla.com account for FSD.

 

[graphic]

Elon, dont make the price too outrageous for us broke folks looking to upgrade later...$7500 ?

 

[-motts-]

EAP has not been for sale for a while now- might want to check your actual price in your tesla.com account for FSD.

Adding FSD shows as 5k.

It was 3k, should have bought at 2k, now its up to 5k

 

[Fernand]

What's funny, to me, is the ambiguity. I get angry at the sliding prices against sliding features, and there are good reasons for that, no matter what the Tesla fanboys and the believers in unfettered capitalism say.

• How many of us knew what the $35k robot car would do, when we plunked our $1k reservation down?
  
• How many of us understood as we clicked on "order" what adding several thousand in "autonomy" would actually provide?

The boundaries and terms kept changing enough to confuse us. Some say it's been deliberately misleading. Some say it's because it's a moving target, in development.

But at the same time, when I see Musk under attack from luddites, ignorant folks (and short position stock players), I fully side with him. He's inspired, and right about so much that it's not even close.