I pay .7997 per kw. Cost 31cents to drive to work each way according to Teslafi.
I just show people my Teslafi screen and watch the wheels spin in their minds.
I just show people my Teslafi screen and watch the wheels spin in their minds.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Cost of Fuel Equivalent
- Thread starter pelyon
- Start date
When you see this just smile...
THE PINEHURST PRESS NEWS & VIEWS
Interesting Take on Electric Cars
As an engineer I love the electric vehicle technology. However, I
have been troubled for a longtime by the fact that the electrical
energy to keep the batteries charged has to come from the grid and
that means more power generation and a huge increase in the
distribution infrastructure Whether generated from coal, gas, oil,
wind or sun, installed generation capacity is limited. A friend sent
me the following that says it very well. You should all take a look
at this short article.
IF ELECTRIC CARS DO NOT USE GASOLINE, THEY WILL NOT PARTICIPATE IN
PAYING A GASOLINE TAX ON EVERY GALLON THAT IS SOLD FOR AUTOMOBILES,
WHICH WAS ENACTED SOME YEARS AGO TO HELP TO MAINTAIN OUR ROADS AND
BRIDGES. THEY WILL USE THE ROADS, BUT WILL NOT PAY FOR THEIR
MAINTENANCE!
In case you were thinking of buying hybrid or an electric car:
Ever since the advent of electric cars, the REAL cost per mile of
those things has never been discussed. All you ever heard was the mpg
in terms of gasoline, with nary a mention of the cost of electricity
to run it . This is the first article I've ever seen and tells the
story pretty much as I expected it to.
Electricity has to be one of the least efficient ways to power things
yet they're being shoved down our throats. Glad somebody finally put
engineering and math to paper.
At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro
Executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious.
If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you
had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system
for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped
with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes),
The electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three
houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have
electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.
This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our
residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius
elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged
to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems
with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have
to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment"
will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that
it will be presented with an 'OOPS...!' and a shrug.
If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are
eco-friendly, just read the following. Note: If you ARE a green
person, read it anyway. It's enlightening.
Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and
he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted
only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine.
"Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran
on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the
16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.
It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10
hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5
hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging
Time) would be 20 mph.
According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of
electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery.
The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned ,
so I looked up what I pay for electricity.
I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16
per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery.
$18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the
Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a
gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32
Mpg = $0.10 per mile.
The gasoline powered car costs about $25,000 while the Volt costs
$46,000 plus. So the American Government wants loyal Americans not to
do the math, but simply pay twice as much for a car, that costs
more than seven times as much to run, and takes three times longer to
drive across the country.
My response using actual data:
The Tesla is great to drive. But, your calculation’s are still messed up.
Electricity to go 100 miles is 25 kWh or 25 X 0.091 = $2.28.
Gas at 25 mpg (my Lexus) at 2.119 per gallon = 4 gallons for 100 miles or $8.48
Plus I don't pay for oil changes or a dozen other expenses you pay for with in internal combustion engine.
The average is about $3,400 a year.
There is some small maintenance. About $475 a year. Now tires are expensive because you have to have
a tire that can go the 155 mph top speed of the car. But an Audi or BMW or equally fast internal combustion
engine car would require the same expensive tires. Also the Audi or BMW requires Premium gas at $2.799
a gallon so the cost for a “comparable car” would be $11.20. And these “comparable” cars costs as much as
a Tesla.
The IRS gives you $0.55 per mile to drive a car. That’s closer to the actual cost.
So I got the car in November. So October with no Tesla was 1,544 kW
November was 1,456 kWh and about 1,400 kWh after the Tesla The year before with no Tesla was just over
1,000 kWh during the winter. So it looks like 400 kWh per month for the Tesla, or $36.40 But gas would have been
$135.04.
THE PINEHURST PRESS NEWS & VIEWS
Interesting Take on Electric Cars
As an engineer I love the electric vehicle technology. However, I
have been troubled for a longtime by the fact that the electrical
energy to keep the batteries charged has to come from the grid and
that means more power generation and a huge increase in the
distribution infrastructure Whether generated from coal, gas, oil,
wind or sun, installed generation capacity is limited. A friend sent
me the following that says it very well. You should all take a look
at this short article.
IF ELECTRIC CARS DO NOT USE GASOLINE, THEY WILL NOT PARTICIPATE IN
PAYING A GASOLINE TAX ON EVERY GALLON THAT IS SOLD FOR AUTOMOBILES,
WHICH WAS ENACTED SOME YEARS AGO TO HELP TO MAINTAIN OUR ROADS AND
BRIDGES. THEY WILL USE THE ROADS, BUT WILL NOT PAY FOR THEIR
MAINTENANCE!
In case you were thinking of buying hybrid or an electric car:
Ever since the advent of electric cars, the REAL cost per mile of
those things has never been discussed. All you ever heard was the mpg
in terms of gasoline, with nary a mention of the cost of electricity
to run it . This is the first article I've ever seen and tells the
story pretty much as I expected it to.
Electricity has to be one of the least efficient ways to power things
yet they're being shoved down our throats. Glad somebody finally put
engineering and math to paper.
At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro
Executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious.
If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you
had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system
for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped
with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes),
The electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three
houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have
electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.
This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our
residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius
elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged
to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems
with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have
to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment"
will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that
it will be presented with an 'OOPS...!' and a shrug.
If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are
eco-friendly, just read the following. Note: If you ARE a green
person, read it anyway. It's enlightening.
Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and
he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted
only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine.
"Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran
on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the
16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.
It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10
hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5
hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging
Time) would be 20 mph.
According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of
electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery.
The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned ,
so I looked up what I pay for electricity.
I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16
per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery.
$18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the
Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a
gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32
Mpg = $0.10 per mile.
The gasoline powered car costs about $25,000 while the Volt costs
$46,000 plus. So the American Government wants loyal Americans not to
do the math, but simply pay twice as much for a car, that costs
more than seven times as much to run, and takes three times longer to
drive across the country.
My response using actual data:
The Tesla is great to drive. But, your calculation’s are still messed up.
Electricity to go 100 miles is 25 kWh or 25 X 0.091 = $2.28.
Gas at 25 mpg (my Lexus) at 2.119 per gallon = 4 gallons for 100 miles or $8.48
Plus I don't pay for oil changes or a dozen other expenses you pay for with in internal combustion engine.
The average is about $3,400 a year.
There is some small maintenance. About $475 a year. Now tires are expensive because you have to have
a tire that can go the 155 mph top speed of the car. But an Audi or BMW or equally fast internal combustion
engine car would require the same expensive tires. Also the Audi or BMW requires Premium gas at $2.799
a gallon so the cost for a “comparable car” would be $11.20. And these “comparable” cars costs as much as
a Tesla.
The IRS gives you $0.55 per mile to drive a car. That’s closer to the actual cost.
So I got the car in November. So October with no Tesla was 1,544 kW
November was 1,456 kWh and about 1,400 kWh after the Tesla The year before with no Tesla was just over
1,000 kWh during the winter. So it looks like 400 kWh per month for the Tesla, or $36.40 But gas would have been
$135.04.
gilscales
Banned
Who pays this for Electricity, Never have I ever read so much FUD in such a short space, haha!
RaeW
Member
A question I'm asked every time I tell someone I've gone electric, is "how much does it cost vs a gas car?"
I am envious of those who have such cheap electric rates. On Cape Cod we pay about 21/22 cents per kWh (this is generation plus delivery). We however have solar panels and pay between one cent and five cents per kWh. My 2018 average cost was 4.3 cents. We have a Prius and an S85D. Relative to the Prius, fuel equivalent of the Tesla is about 25% assuming the Prius gets 50 MPG (it actually does better than that). This calculation is based on gasoline at $2.60/Gal. We have not kept track of free Super Charging, hence we do better than 25%; so my answer would be "less than 25%." Taking into account other costs such as engine oil changes, etc,--much better.
I am envious of those who have such cheap electric rates. On Cape Cod we pay about 21/22 cents per kWh (this is generation plus delivery). We however have solar panels and pay between one cent and five cents per kWh. My 2018 average cost was 4.3 cents. We have a Prius and an S85D. Relative to the Prius, fuel equivalent of the Tesla is about 25% assuming the Prius gets 50 MPG (it actually does better than that). This calculation is based on gasoline at $2.60/Gal. We have not kept track of free Super Charging, hence we do better than 25%; so my answer would be "less than 25%." Taking into account other costs such as engine oil changes, etc,--much better.
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Someone should inform this guy of a new piece of technology known as the clock. It allows EVs to charge at night when residential load is low.
GoBlue88
Member
LOL. My 50-amp circuit for my NEMA 14-50 charger that only draws between 12-5am suffices just fine, along with my 200 amp service.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Again, to be fair, you only get AT BEST about 3.3 mi/kWh (300Wh/mi), for the LR RWD, or 3mi/kWh (330Wh/mi, for the AWD, assuming no heat usage, and about 10k miles per year.
These are close to the absolute best case numbers with those assumptions. You might be able to get 280-290Wh/mi in the RWD (wall to wheel avg) if you only do city driving (~220-230Wh/mi battery to wheel).
Just want to make sure people are using the correct efficiencies for their calculations here. It is good when advertising to others to be as close to the actual numbers (and slightly pessimistic) as possible.
Last edited:
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Glutton
My 15-40 is a 40 Amp circuit that charges at 32 Amps our TWO EVs. I'm not defending the troll article but I do think that it makes sense to charge cars when demand is low and hopefully clean energy is high. The night-time charging is an anachronism of coal utilities.
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
Here in Toronto, ON Canada eh - 7PM to 7AM is 0.07c per kWh. Throw in delivery, charging lost, AC/HVAC for winter etc. It costs ~0.0256c per km driven. So $2.56 CAD per 100km > *1.6 and CAD to USD conversion = $3.064 per 100mi
My data is here > Model 3 kW Log
My data is here > Model 3 kW Log
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
My local utility charges 10 cents a kWh, so 2.5 US cents a mile excluding vampire losses to use the grid. PV is much cheaper.
Last edited:
gilscales
Banned
And charging losses, I typically get 94% charging efficiency per TeslaFi, not sure how accurate this is as I have read that it could be closer to 88%, does anyone know what is typical?
You lose.
Bad cost calculations aren't the point of articles like that. They are articles that throw a load of mud at the wall to try and get as much to stick as possible.
If you're going to address those articles, go through clearly, point by point to try to clean it up.
My wife and I have two houses in Texas. One has "green wind power" which is underutilized at night so the day rate is $0.141kWh and between 8 PM and 6 AM it is $0.00. When we can swing it I try to charge any really low battery at her place after 8 PM.... She also has a Volt so she charges at night, too. Haven't had to get up and unplug one car and plug in the other yet, but it could happen.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
When I have paid attention via the Chargepoint, assuming a 242Wh/mi constant for the rated miles display (P3D), I have seen about 88% or so charging efficiency, too.
I wonder how TeslaFi calculates their number. I just charge to a certain rated miles, drive a bunch, and then charge up to the same rated miles. And then see how many kWh have to be put in according to Chargepoint and divide by actual miles driven. Easy enough. I get about 330-360Wh/mi with that metric for indicated driving efficiency of 290Wh/mi, depending on the time elapsed between charges. Maybe in slightly warmer weather (70-80 rather than 50-60) the charging efficiency will be slightly better. I’ll check again in a couple months.
Last edited:
I knew the guy that sent it to me was an engineer [EE] and I think he was just tweaking me with some drivel from the internet He actually replied that he hoped I enjoyed my Tesla and fully grasped the the misleading and erroneous nature of the attack. That said I don't know how your comment "You lose." even applies. The point was to alert other members that this kind of misleading crap is getting put out there and other low information readers are possibly going to believe it. The "facts" are wrong. You seem to have seen that, too.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Included. My lifetime (June to March, so far) battery to wheels is 217 Wh/mile. I figure up to 12% charging losses so 217/0.88 = 247 Wh/mile meter to wheels.
Yeah, at $0.25 kWh and cold climate in the Northeast there are not much "savings". So besides the confusing/misleading stickers Tesla's website is also very misleading. The stickers do state cost of fuel and electricity they used in there calculations. But they still don't add up.
Mine works out to about an equivalent of 32 mpg (in winter, at 272 wh/mi). That's combined, which is on par with a car this size. But not with this much equivalent HP.
In the summer I should be closer to 40 or 50 mpg. Which is respectable. But not jaw dropping.
Luckily I have Solar. But I (pre-)paid handsomely for that and I'm not sure yet how much it will cover. I had some overage I can use and I only plan to put about 12K miles a year on it.
Mine works out to about an equivalent of 32 mpg (in winter, at 272 wh/mi). That's combined, which is on par with a car this size. But not with this much equivalent HP.
In the summer I should be closer to 40 or 50 mpg. Which is respectable. But not jaw dropping.
Luckily I have Solar. But I (pre-)paid handsomely for that and I'm not sure yet how much it will cover. I had some overage I can use and I only plan to put about 12K miles a year on it.
Because everyone's ice cars are different and electricity costs are different it's hard to compare. All I can say is that i was averaging $145/month in gas and now instead of that my PG&E bill rose $45/month.
Similar threads
