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Cost to charge by energy provider - round 3!
- Thread starter DaveW
- Start date
MikeHolliday
Member
I am surprised that they are pasing out gas. I Can see phasing out oil and solid fuel, but natural gas burns extremely clean. Natural Gas is primarily Methane. The byproducst of burning methane is carbon dioxide and water vapor which are the same as what we exhale.
MrBadger
Badger out
Gas boilers give off a lot of nitrogen oxides (NOx) and worse still, it is normally emitted very close to where people may be present for extended periods of time.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
The drivers behind this are both emissions reductions, under the Future Homes Standard, which aims to reduce domestic CO2 emissions by between 75% and 80%, and also reducing dependence on gas in future, as we've used around 60% of our available North Sea reserves, and we import gas, both as LNG and via a pipeline from Europe.
Although gas burns a lot more cleanly than oil, it still produces a lot of CO2, and we need to reduce this. One advantage of switching to electricity for heating here is that a significant part of our total generation comes from non-CO2 producing technologies, a mix of nuclear, wind, solar, hydro, plus, perhaps in future, some tidal. This means that switching to electricity for heating produces a lot less CO2 than burning gas, so helps to achieve the emissions reduction target. To give an idea of how significant that is, even now, with a fair proportion of our grid electricity coming from gas and coal fired power stations, our all-electrically heated house has an overall CO2 "emissions" rating of -0.9 tonnes of CO2 per year. The negative figure is because we have over 6 kWp of solar panels, and they generate more zero carbon electricity per year than we consume, so lowering our overall emissions rating a lot.
phil4
Member
Didn't recognise the avatar change
How does this one work for you: Tesla - Cost to home charge by provider v3 - Advanced
I should change it more often
Ok... and onto how it works... looks great... easy to follow, all good... but I think there may be something up with the calcs.
Looking at a bulb bill I had from 22nd July to 21st August - I used 825Kwh energy (this is pre-EV too!)... so divide by 30, and we're at 27.50Kwh per day.
Pop that into your sheet, and 0 out the special rate. Likewise 80-80 on the charge, so zero cost Gives £5.16 per day on Bulb, so multiply by 30, and it's £154.80.
My bulb bill, including daily (rip off) Standing Charge, and VAT is £123.18 for that same period. So we're a bit out.
I did the same for Aug to Sept - 744 Kwh, total cost inc VAT, standing charge etc.. £112.10 - your sheet says £140.80
And my final bill (Sept to Oct) - 584Kwh over 23 days... Bulb charged £87.55 inc VAT and standing charge - your sheet says: £109.94
Something's bumping the cost up.
It's still great as a comparison tool, and I know, it's designed to look at EV charging, not what'll save you money on your leccy bill, but since you added that to stop people jumping just to charge their EV and falling foul of overall higher cost, I offer the above merely as feedback/validation.
Please please please don't take any of this as criticism from me, that's not what its intended for.
There’s currently a pilot to mix hydrogen with natural gas to use the same infrastructure & combi boilers but reduce Co2 & nitrogen dioxide. Think bio-diesel. If successful could extend the life of natural gas in the UK.
https://www.edie.net/news/8/UK-s-first-grid-injected-hydrogen-trials-begin-in-Staffordshire/
https://www.edie.net/news/8/UK-s-first-grid-injected-hydrogen-trials-begin-in-Staffordshire/
I should change it more often
Ok... and onto how it works... looks great... easy to follow, all good... but I think there may be something up with the calcs.
Looking at a bulb bill I had from 22nd July to 21st August - I used 825Kwh energy (this is pre-EV too!)... so divide by 30, and we're at 27.50Kwh per day.
Pop that into your sheet, and 0 out the special rate. Likewise 80-80 on the charge, so zero cost Gives £5.16 per day on Bulb, so multiply by 30, and it's £154.80.
My bulb bill, including daily (rip off) Standing Charge, and VAT is £123.18 for that same period. So we're a bit out.
I did the same for Aug to Sept - 744 Kwh, total cost inc VAT, standing charge etc.. £112.10 - your sheet says £140.80
And my final bill (Sept to Oct) - 584Kwh over 23 days... Bulb charged £87.55 inc VAT and standing charge - your sheet says: £109.94
Something's bumping the cost up.
It's still great as a comparison tool, and I know, it's designed to look at EV charging, not what'll save you money on your leccy bill, but since you added that to stop people jumping just to charge their EV and falling foul of overall higher cost, I offer the above merely as feedback/validation.
Please please please don't take any of this as criticism from me, that's not what its intended for.
Thanks @phil4 - have you factored in the price increase from Bulb? I'm using the new prices, which I think kicked in for November? (or at least late October). Are you/were you also on the E7 meter? The price calc there is on the E7 prices which are more expensive in the day than the single rate ones
I'll double check the calc, but the house price one doesn't factor in any kind of losses etc.. it is just kWhs * price + standing charge
phil4
Member
I moved to Octopus mid Oct, so the prices listed are the old Bulb ones, so that may be the reason for the discrep, although it looks a bit big for that. And no, I wasn't on an E7 meter, just a plain old non-smart meter, so if you're using them and they're more expensive, then it's even stranger that there's a big gap.
That might explain the gap tbh @phil4 - The E7 day rate is higher (that's what is used in the sheet) and it's had a price hike! The day rate in the sheet is approx 2p per kWh more expensive and that's with the new higher prices.
These are the current Bulb prices:
Non E7
Electricity Unit rate - 16.0114p per kWh
Standing charge - 20.8666p per day (£76.16 per year)
E7
Electricity Day Unit Rate: 18.0148p per kWh
Electricity Night Unit Rate: 8.9366p per kWh
Standing charge - 21.0714p per day (£76.91 per year)
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
There are different tariffs for different areas, so here, the Bulb Varifair E7 tariff is currently:
17.5990 p/kWh peak rate
9.2106 p/kWh off-peak rate
21.1575 p/day standing charge (£77.22 per year)
Cheapest E7 rate here is currently from green.energy:
13.8285 p/kWh peak rate
9.0180 p/kWh off-peak rate
15.0000 p/day standing charge (£54.75 per year)
I believe that many electricity suppliers have different rates for different regions.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
The regional differences are one of the things I've found to be a nuisance when trying to compare prices. The only way to get at the tariff information for most suppliers seems to be to put in your postcode and get a quote. OFGEN must have all this tariff data, and it would be a great deal easier if they just kept a table of every supplier, with their tariffs for each region.
phil4
Member
I stand corrected, it's looks like its about 86% gas nationwide. But I wouldn't mind betting that of new build housing the figure is nearer 95% because they tend to build in urban areas where the most profit is to be made and a gas supply is readily available.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the 2025 date is being pushed back, the builders are bellyaching about it. Also I'm not convinced that the domestic sized whole house heatpumps are reliable enough or have the service backup to begin a roll out in such volumes. It needs to happen though, albeit over a slightly longer time frame.
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