Cost to own Model 3 AWD vs Subaru Outback

[camalaio]

This video shows that the front engages as needed in the snow, and is neither rare, nor weak:

It is what convinced me to get the AWD Model 3. (If I had known about the Acceleration Boost before I bought it, that would have also been a swing factor).

We had opposite takeaways from that video (I've watched it previously). I feel bad pointing this out though if it's why you bought the car

Especially near the end when he's trying to just crawl away, the show from the front motor isn't great. Even with traction control going, very little torque is redirected to the front. To be fair, this could be slow acquisition of CAN data via the app, but I know this behaviour to be true after driving it last winter as well. It tries very hard to be a RWD car.

If using the same app, you'll see front motor engagement happens after the rear gets to about 150Nm of torque. I hit that infrequently driving on dry surfaces, let alone driving cautiously in Winter. The only reason you see the front engaging is because he keeps mashing the throttle hard, thus my "red light" comment. He was driving in fairly decent conditions too IMO (relative to what Winter roads could be).

 

[camalaio]

I was a bit critical to Model 3's AWD my first 2018-19 winter. Sometimes the car would find amazing traction and best other similar weight/size cars. However, sometimes I was not confident driving uphill on compacted snow the same speed as other cars around me, and that never happened to me as I was used to dominate snowy roads on all my previous cars: Audi S4 (still current, same clearance), Acura RDX, Subaru Outback.
After upgrading to V10 software last year the Model 3's AWD dynamics subtly changed and I was very confident driving cold, snowy and slippery roads this past winter. Had no complaints. In fact, the car saved me from a collision when on a very slippery road a trailer swung when behind a truck that lost traction.

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I imagine you made your statements based on how you feel the front engages but it is far from what I feel. Technically there's no reason for Tesla to not be able to distribute the torque between front and rear perfectly.

I missed your post earlier. Recognised where you were immediately! Was a bit strange seeing MPH in BC. Especially that many MPH. I'm guessing it was that sticky/dry sort of road condition based on the temperature.

Didn't do any Winter driving in the Model 3 prior to V10, so I can't speak for before/after. I do want to clarify I do not think it's terrible overall, just that it's clearly trying very hard not to use the front motor. Model Y has an offroad mode that splits the torque more evenly - begged for this (albeit on forums) for it to only go to the new model! This would have made some nasty drives so, so much better.

A surprising number of folks are coming to the Model 3 AWD from vehicles without traction control, and praising the Model 3 for being better than any car they've driven in snow (when really, it's just their first intro to traction control systems). Not to you specifically, but I think it's worth mentioning that other cars also have good traction control. In fact, on pure ice, ICE does better precisely because of its sluggish torque compared to the Model 3.

I'd happily take the Model 3 anywhere if I had the option to just use the front motor like on the Model Y. Difference between planning for bad traction vs. reacting to already-lost traction. I'm so disappointed about the offroad mode thing.

 

[Ugene]

Recognised where you were immediately! Was a bit strange seeing MPH in BC. Especially that many MPH. I'm guessing it was that sticky/dry sort of road condition based on the temperature.

The darker "ruts" were not sticky dry. It was _almost_ to the asphalt with snow patches. In fact, the -10F compacted snow around had good traction and was my safety in case the car starts rotating but I never had a problem. The road was nearly empty, though, so, given my risk tolerance, my speed limit was more about to not get the car impounded in Canada. That time the driving got really tricky on the descent to Hope where it got warmer, and then on Hwy 1 near Chilliwack where it was ice with around 5-8 car per mile in a ditch; that's where I had to avoid the trailer swinging widely behind a truck that lost traction. In all these situation my Model 3 with Michelin PA4s (winter performance that are closer to all-seasons than to proper winter tires) allowed me to be more confident in terms of maintaining speed and making maneuvers than other cars.

In fact, on pure ice, ICE does better precisely because of its sluggish torque compared to the Model 3.

I switch to low regen and turn off sport acceleration when it gets slippery, and I get very gentle with the accelerator pedal. Do well on ice next to other cars.

There were situations where my Audi S4 with exact same tires was better on the snow. The Audi feels more tossable/playful and less of a cow when it comes to rotating the car on the snow, or plowing through piles of snow. Another situation is when ruts in the snow are becoming too deep for the clearance and I need to get one wheel on the median and one on the side - the Tesla is _way_ harder to control precisely. The Audi has same official clearance as Model 3 Performance but because of flat bottom Model 3 loses in the ability to go through deeper snow considerably.

 

[TydalForce]

Couple more points to throw at you
I traded in my 2016 Subaru Impreza for the Model 3. It was my 4th Subaru. I would have gotten another one if they had an EV.
They DO have a Crosstrek Plug-In Hybrid, but I didn't want a car that large. I didn't see that model mentioned in this thread.
Also, starting with 2019, Toyota added an all-wheel-drive option to the Prius (my husband has one).

Unfortunately we had a very mild winter in Philly this year so no idea how well these actually do in the snow. But if you're looking for something "not just gas", they're options to consider.

Compared to the Impreza, I guesstimated that cost-per-mile in the Tesla was about 1/4 the Impreza (based on gas and electric rates). My insurance did go up, but to about the point my Impreza was when new so it seems that was more "new vs aged" than anything. YMMV

Do keep in mind the potential for gas cars to depreciate value significantly as we continue to phase out legacy fuels. If you're motivated by "green", even getting electricity for an EV from a dirty source is more eco-friendly over the life of a car than a gas vehicle (source: Are Electric Cars Actually Greener Than Gas Cars? )

 

[ThePlankeEye]

Not all costs have been accounted for. There is a cost to your soul. The CVT will rob it of joy.

 

[LionXng]

Couple more points to throw at you
I traded in my 2016 Subaru Impreza for the Model 3. It was my 4th Subaru. I would have gotten another one if they had an EV.
They DO have a Crosstrek Plug-In Hybrid, but I didn't want a car that large.

Crosstrek is exactly the same size and body as an Impreza, but jacked up a few inches higher to look a little cross-over-y.

 

[camalaio]

Crosstrek is exactly the same size and body as an Impreza, but jacked up a few inches higher to look a little cross-over-y.

This used to be true, but the newer models differ in more than bumper covers now. Still about the same size though, which is why we really wanted one.

 

[TydalForce]

Crosstrek is exactly the same size and body as an Impreza, but jacked up a few inches higher to look a little cross-over-y.

I always referred to it as “an over-inflated Version of my car”. The drive felt different too