Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Model S' started by TEG, May 6, 2009.
Is the Tesla Model S Really For the Rest of Us? : Gas 2.0
So his conclusion is that Elon is right -- that the Model S is indeed about the same expense as a $35k ICE sport sedan. Well, Elan says the same as a Camry which gets better mpg than the 20 mpg in this guy's assumption. Other than that, it's good validation to Elon's claims.
A pretty opinionated comment, but again, why do people act like you can only run out of "fuel" in an electric car? People run out of gas all the time. Granted, it's currently easier to refill a gas guzzler than charge an EV.
Graham? I think your services are required...
Ha! Well, admittedly my definition of affordable and his are probably different... as is our definition of "tree hut"! :smile:
But the technology does exist and work today, and is way more affordable and practical today than the hydrogen version he touts. It is still not mass market affordable, but new technologies rarely are.
I haven't had the car long enough yet to know whether the entirety of my ~90 mile daily commute will be powered 100% from the roof of my tree hut, but it will probably be close. And something he will never be able to do with his gasoline or hydrogen car.
Damn, apparently I don't have an ounce of common sense...and here, all along, I thought I was a pretty bright guy. live an learn.
Looks like that dude is the one that needs the course on EE!
Ok, so I currently plug-in at work (I'm not above taking advantage of offered benefits ;-). And our panels will only cover 60% of our historical usage. BUT...
Given my shorter commute and the Roadster's efficiency, the additional electric usage at home if I charged it only there would be covered by a couple of minor conservation steps. It's just not that much electricity - the planned TV replacement, will, in fact, just about cover it.
As for range, I never once in 6 years drove the 911 more than 100 miles a day. On our road trips, about 200 miles a day is as much as we push it - slower road trips are a heck of a lot more fun. Once an EV can cover SF <-> LA in one shot @75mph, that's as much as I could ever imagine needing without a long stop somewhere.
Another factor to consider is if you have solar panels on your home - or small wind, or whatever - your electrical power source has been paid for, so you have a guaranteed fixed cost of electricity. Gas prices on the other hand go all over the place - and mainly up.
I think the remaininq barrier to practical EVs is battery pack cost, for cells and assembly. GM seems sanguine about the prospects for that. If you can trust GM's competence at anything, it's cost accounting.
Does anyone know an online calculator to try and get an idea of cost of ownership of an electric car vs. gas car? I tried searching but couldn't find a good one.
I found this EV Juice « Tesla Founders Blog which seems really detailed but only for PG&E in California.
Yeah, for some reason it is a common "fear" of the ignorant - this "running out of battery." I guess Hydrogen never runs out. Same with gas. What this guy doesn't know is that batteries can actually self-rescue you. I've done it a few times. Let the batteries rest, and you can drive a few more miles. But anyway...
Oh and the part about this solar-powered pipe dream? Ha. Been doing that for six years, thankyouverymuch. And I did it on a relative shoe string compared to Graham.
Six years ago, I spent about $40,000 on my pipe dream. You know what I got? I brand new electric vehicle, and enough solar system to fuel any EV for the rest of my life. A new car and fuel for life for $40,000. Man, am I stupid. Possibly even more stupid than Evan.
The article also didn't mention that some states like NJ, do not charge sales or luxury taxes on electric vehicles.
I understand the arguement and RIGHT NOW there isn't an affordable EV (which does of course depend on your definition of affordable).
But there is an equally valid argument that NOT switching the majority of our transportation to EVs is not affordable. Between being held hostage by foreign oil producing countries/interests, environmental concerns, etc we just can't afford not to go to EVs where possible.
His point about hydrogen over EVs though is laughable. Putting down EVs based on price and then holding hydrogen up as the way to go??!?
I don't think he has priced out a hydrogen vehicle, not to mention the innefficiencies of it.
Hydrogen fuel cell cars are hybrids. The power source is a fuel cell, but the car is an EV. So basically the question is: is the cost of the fuel cell less than the cost of a bigger battery?
I doubt the answer will ever be yes.
Hydrogen is an energy carrier, not a source of energy. It takes energy to produce pure hydrogen, it isn't just sitting somewhere you can collect it. The efficiency of charging an EV is WAAAY higher than the efficiency of creating, storing, transporting and distributing hydrogen. If energy costs are a factor, hydrogen will never win.
Holy thread revival! Entertaining comments to say the least...
Hmmm, yeah, I didn't even look at the date.
Well, you know what they say: hydrogen cars are the future, always have been, always will be.