Could EPA Range approximations for 90D be low to help sell more P90D ?

[goneskiian]

But the non P has the spoiler in the most optimal position for speed where it would make the most difference, so doubtful.

Actually word from Tesla is that the non P and 70 will have the spoiler in the best position for visibility which is the highest setting on the active spoiler for the P. Then at highway speeds it lowers just a bit for best aerodynamics.

 

[ecarfan]

Just dropped by to repeat that cameras instead of side mirrors gets you a 6% increase (range, efficiency) at highway speed

Please provide your source that supports that statement. Thanks.

 

[commasign]

Bumping this up because now we have official EPA range numbers for the Model S 90D.

Model X 70D (never built) vs Model S 70D
220 miles vs 240 miles (91.7%)

Model X 75D vs Model S 75D (does not exist, extrapolation of 75/70 = +7.1%)
237 miles vs 257 miles (92.2%)

Model X 90D vs Model S 90D
257 miles vs 294 miles (87.4%) <<<----------?????????

Model X P90D vs Model S P90D
250 miles vs 270 miles (92.6%)

So, therefore, Model X has approximately 92% of the range of the Model S, strongly suggesting that the Model X 90D range is at least 270 miles EPA. The currently listed 257 miles range makes no sense at all. The X 90D has the same active spoiler as the X P90D so that can't be the explanation for the discrepancy.

 

[Macgaver]

It could be that the smaller engine in 90D don't behave as efficiently because of the Model-X higher aerodynamic push ... but that would also mean that 70D and 75D would be impacted, and they are not.

So ... yeah, I still believe the 90D number is strange. My guess is ... wrong number to help sell more Performance models ... and when everyone have finished configuring (internationally), then they will annonce the "Dynamic spoiler" have been added to all 90D ... and the range is 270 Miles.

That would be evil. Hope I am wrong.

 

[commasign]

It could be that the smaller engine in 90D don't behave as efficiently because of the Model-X higher aerodynamic push ... but that would also mean that 70D and 75D would be impacted, and they are not.

So ... yeah, I still believe the 90D number is strange. My guess is ... wrong number to help sell more Performance models ... and when everyone have finished configuring (internationally), then they will annonce the "Dynamic spoiler" have been added to all 90D ... and the range is 270 Miles.

That would be evil. Hope I am wrong.

When they were only selling the 90D and the P90D, it made sense to do this to get more P90D orders. But now with the 75D introduced, they risk losing a lot of 90D orders by not stating a more optimistic range. I.e. right now it seems that the 75D is a better value because it's $12500 less for a loss of only 20 miles. Who needs 20 miles? But if the difference is 33 miles or more, that might convince more people to get the 90D.

 

[dwebb66]

Bumping this up because now we have official EPA range numbers for the Model S 90D.

Model X 70D (never built) vs Model S 70D
220 miles vs 240 miles (91.7%)

Model X 75D vs Model S 75D (does not exist, extrapolation of 75/70 = +7.1%)
237 miles vs 257 miles (92.2%)

Model X 90D vs Model S 90D
257 miles vs 294 miles (87.4%) <<<----------?????????

Model X P90D vs Model S P90D
250 miles vs 270 miles (92.6%)

So, therefore, Model X has approximately 92% of the range of the Model S, strongly suggesting that the Model X 90D range is at least 270 miles EPA. The currently listed 257 miles range makes no sense at all. The X 90D has the same active spoiler as the X P90D so that can't be the explanation for the discrepancy.

Did you update the S numbers also? I thought the S90D was listed at over 300 with the new front end.

 

[commasign]

Did you update the S numbers also? I thought the S90D was listed at over 300 with the new front end.

Yes, these are all the latest ranges from the website today. The S 90D is 294 miles.

 

[dwebb66]

Yes, these are all the latest ranges from the website today. The S 90D is 294 miles.

Here are the numbers from the updated tesla page. Not sure what speed & temp should be used.

 

[EV Family]

Yeah that's a bummer if it indeed is only a 20 mile difference between the X75 and X90.
That would be the most expensive per mile price ever. Assuming a $15,500 price difference (including the active air that is forced on to all 90's) that makes the price per mile for the 75 vs 90 something like $700 per mile!
I'm wondering what you current X owners of the 90D variant are seeing at a 100% state of charge (if you've charged that high yet)? I know the EPA 5 cycle test has a certain of variables that come up with their range estimation but wouldn't the real world number on people's display at 100% give us the most realistic and usable range info?
I've seen people with X's report around 230 miles at 90% SOC.

 

[X Fan]

When they were only selling the 90D and the P90D, it made sense to do this to get more P90D orders. But now with the 75D introduced, they risk losing a lot of 90D orders by not stating a more optimistic range. I.e. right now it seems that the 75D is a better value because it's $12500 less for a loss of only 20 miles. Who needs 20 miles? But if the difference is 33 miles or more, that might convince more people to get the 90D.

You do get 1.2 seconds faster 0-60 vs 75 but agree with your point. Not worth the extra speed (since 6.0 is pretty quick) combined with limited extra miles.

 

[rallykeeper]

Our X90D reports 237 rated miles at 90% SOC. Haven't done a full charge yet, but that's actually 90% of 263.

Not sure where the truth lies.

Yeah that's a bummer if it indeed is only a 20 mile difference between the X75 and X90.
That would be the most expensive per mile price ever. Assuming a $15,500 price difference (including the active air that is forced on to all 90's) that makes the price per mile for the 75 vs 90 something like $700 per mile!
I'm wondering what you current X owners of the 90D variant are seeing at a 100% state of charge (if you've charged that high yet)? I know the EPA 5 cycle test has a certain of variables that come up with their range estimation but wouldn't the real world number on people's display at 100% give us the most realistic and usable range info?
I've seen people with X's report around 230 miles at 90% SOC.

 

[Sony SS-M7]

I don't think I'd get full rated range on my 90D based on about 300mi put on our X so far. Our average wh/mi is like 370-380 in CA weather and I don't think I'm even driving very aggressively.

 

[EV Family]

I don't think I'd get full rated range on my 90D based on about 300mi put on our X so far. Our average wh/mi is like 370-380 in CA weather and I don't think I'm even driving very aggressively.

You've got to give your tires a few thousand miles before an accurate indication of your full rated range becomes more evident.

 

[msnow]

I don't think I'd get full rated range on my 90D based on about 300mi put on our X so far. Our average wh/mi is like 370-380 in CA weather and I don't think I'm even driving very aggressively.

Rated Range has nothing to do with your driving style. There *may* be a small impact for temperature depending on which part of CA you live in but for me it has no impact. Rated Range is an EPA rating based on their 5 point tests.

 

[jackbowers]

I'm thinking its the Pirelli performance tires that allow the X P90D do almost as well as the X 90D. They also have a much better treadwear rating than the performance tires for Model S.

The other possibility is that Tesla has designed updated motor controllers that reduce I-squared-R power losses and deliver improved regen efficiency for the X P90D and 75D, but has not yet rolled the new version into the X 90D.

 

[Macgaver]

Pirelli ? The 20" on P90D are Michelin Latitude Sport 3

And the 22" have 10-15% range impact...

 

[commasign]

I'm thinking its the Pirelli performance tires that allow the X P90D do almost as well as the X 90D. They also have a much better treadwear rating than the performance tires for Model S.

The other possibility is that Tesla has designed updated motor controllers that reduce I-squared-R power losses and deliver improved regen efficiency for the X P90D and 75D, but has not yet rolled the new version into the X 90D.

But Tesla hasn't built a single 75D as far as we know.

 

[ohmman]

I'm consuming right around 330Wh/mi on a pretty good mix of city/highway miles. Granted, it's the first 500 miles, so it's by no means definitive. But at 257 mile range, 257 * 330 = 84.81kWh. That's probably pretty close to the usable capacity of the battery, so I'm thinking it's not that far off.

 

[goneskiian]

Have any of you tried charging to 100%? From the X: What's your 90%? thread is seems the 90D's should get about 264 rated miles. No not a huge sample set yet.

 

[SageBrush]

Could it be a temporary tactic to help sell more P90D at the moment (awaiting EPA certification to fix the approximation) ?

no