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Could my P85D with new 90kwh battery get more performance?

Cildein

Member
Aug 17, 2021
15
6
Virginia
So my 2015 Model S P85D battery died this year and they replaced it under warranty with a 90Kwh. When I asked them about unlocking the larger battery they told me it would be $750 for 3-5% more range. I asked them if this would include upping the performance but they said no. When I asked about comparing a 2015 P90D with having a 3.0 for the 0-60mph and wouldn't paying the $750 essentially do the same thing I think I befuddled them. Anyone have any experience or insight? To me it is not worth the money for just the small range increase but is tempting if it increased my performance as well.
 

Krash

Data Technician
Moderator
Apr 18, 2017
2,097
2,296
Intermountain US
Cars have fixed torque and power limits, separate from the power of the battery. Also the motors have a back EMF curve that lowers torque at higher RPMs.

Tesla thinks they are merely offering to flip a switch that tells the car not to charge to 100%, rather to only charge to 95% or 97%. Such a switch does exist. If so, then your car would not pick up any performance.

But for some people who have had larger battery replacements, the car actually shows the larger battery size on the car screen and app afterward. Sometimes these are paid upgrades. Sometimes they are replacements but the service centers install firmware that shows the car as the higher model. Sometimes they even rebadge them. Of course the title doesn't change. But I think that these cars DO pickup higher torque, motor power and battery power limits. I believe the service centers have to check with corporate engineering to do so, for example to make sure the wiring can handle the extra power.

I would bet 90% likely they are only offering the first case. But you should ask them if the car will show as an 85 or 90 onscreen, and see what they say. I help track that stuff in the Performance Metrics thread, but we don't have a large enough sample to even tell how the P85Ds and P90Ds differ.
 

Cildein

Member
Aug 17, 2021
15
6
Virginia
So I asked and they say that it would ID as a P90D. I also asked if it was required for me to come in for such a service and they said that they would have to hook up to the system. I am wondering if the cells at 94% (85/90. Yes I know it is not exactly that way) only push out 1.45v (just another example number) but at 100% they reach full 1.5v thus the .2 second difference.

What was in a Ludacris upgrade package back when it was available? Besides the battery difference I think there was a transformer or module change. Just wondering if that was the standard now and that also was replace. Then maybe getting Ludacris would only be a firmware upgrade as well. Just dreaming.
 

Evee

Member
Nov 24, 2015
322
189
Las Vegas
Lol woah I’ve never heard of a soft locked 90 pack to 85. You are getting a full spec 90 pack and yes it will have better sustained peak power. Period. You cannot upgrade the pack to ludicrous at this point through tesla. You’d have to find someone who can and if you look on this form you will :)
 

Muad'Dib

Member
Nov 12, 2021
9
5
Denver
I have a 2014 P85D with a 90Kwh pack. No idea if the previous owner paid for any sort of unlock or upgrade when the swap occurred. It IDs as a P90D and while it does not have Ludacris, I feel that the Insane mode is a bit stronger than the P85D I drove way back when.

Pretty sure my new 90Kwh pack has about 60k miles on it (Tesla will not tell me exactly when the swap occurred on mine) and I get a reported 253 mile max charge, though admittedly I have never taken past ~90% (~225mi).
 
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rns-e

Member
May 5, 2013
511
245
Denmark
Well, actually you should have less power with the new battery as it is only a 350V vs. the olds 400V. The amp the car is drawing is fixed to the old amp max (original wires and fuses) and the voltage is down 50V, power from the battery is A*V=W ... then the new battery may have less voltage sack under load, but that will not compensate for the 50V missing.
 

Muad'Dib

Member
Nov 12, 2021
9
5
Denver
So a 'true' Model S P90D w/ Ludicrous does 0 - 60 in a reported 2.6 seconds. The P85D w/ Insane does 0 - 60 in 2.85 seconds. Both are arguably 691hp.

My P85D/P90D definitely falls into the 2.8 second range but I just attributed that to Ludicrous versus Insane. I read that Ludicrous was actually a physical change to the car (smart fuse) where Insane was just a software unlock on the older models.

If there is a difference, it seems like a minimal one. Admittedly in my own reporting there was a several year gap between my two experiences (P85D versus upgraded P85D to a P90D). Either way, coming from a 325hp turbo ICE, this thing blows my mind on the daily.
 
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BrokerDon

Active Member
Aug 23, 2014
1,429
1,355
Newport Coast, CA
So I asked and they say that it would ID as a P90D. I also asked if it was required for me to come in for such a service and they said that they would have to hook up to the system. I am wondering if the cells at 94% (85/90. Yes I know it is not exactly that way) only push out 1.45v (just another example number) but at 100% they reach full 1.5v thus the .2 second difference.

What was in a Ludacris upgrade package back when it was available? Besides the battery difference I think there was a transformer or module change. Just wondering if that was the standard now and that also was replace. Then maybe getting Ludacris would only be a firmware upgrade as well. Just dreaming.
The LUDICROUS speed option was only available as a $5,000 retrofit to customers who placed a P85D Model S order through Tesla before 11am PST Friday, 7/17/2015. Our 2015 MS P85D got the $5,000 LUDICROUS upgrade (making it a P85D or "P85DL"). Later P85D owners had to pay $10,000 for the LUDICROUS upgrade.

For that $5K or $10K upgrade, Tesla had to discharge the battery completely, remove the entire battery pack, and replace:
  1. a standard fuse to an “advanced smart fuse” which enables the monitoring of current to the millisecond, and makes it possible to cut the power with “extreme precision”.
  2. the main pack contactor to use Inconel instead of steel. Inconel is a space-grade superalloy well suited for extreme high temperature environments.
  3. model number in firmware to P85D (underline added)
  4. trunk badge to P85D (underline added)
LUDICROUS upgraded our P85D yielded a 52 hp bump in power and added another 55 hp for only $5K more. The best benefit pf LUDICROUS is not only the added power and later mph power fade... But its much more powerful on lower SOC. When at 40% battery LUDICROUS still had power than the insane P85D at 100%. (per another TMC LUDICROUS P85D owner and my seat of the pants P85D Insane vs. P85D LUDICROUS driving experience)

The P85D LUDICROUS upgrade is good for reducing 70-90 passing times from 3 seconds down to 2.5 seconds matching the current M5 and S7.

LUDICROUS upgrade has NOT available from Tesla since 2017... and will never be again.
 

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BrokerDon

Active Member
Aug 23, 2014
1,429
1,355
Newport Coast, CA
 

rns-e

Member
May 5, 2013
511
245
Denmark
Both are arguably 691hp.
Not even close :) But you can read more about that on the longest thread here on TMC.

691 hp is theoretical max power if there were no internal resistance in the cells, but as we know there is internal resistance, ohm's law tells us this. Put a P85D on a dyno and it will make around 470 at the wheels. But the kick you feel is because of the insane torque the big motor in the back has, it will deliver around 750 ft lbs from a standstill, that is hard to find in an ICE.

With the ludicrous upgrade they could up the max amp draw from around 1350A to 1500A which is 150A*400V=60kW or about 80 hp
 

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