Could Tesla Model 3 Performance Match Taycan’s 24-Hr Endurance Record?

[TMC Staff]

We use track data, charging data, and some simple math to estimate results. Our preliminary estimate is that the Tesla Model 3 Performance, due to high battery temps, would not be able to charge at 250 kW like the Taycan at the high ambient temps encountered at the Nardo track. Also, the total miles the...
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[lampcord]

Interesting analysis. I guess if I was buying a car to do hot weather endurance racing I'd lean towards the Porsche.

Why are they even comparing these cars. The Taycan base costs $90k and the 'Turbo' (which is the one I assume they used in the test) is $130,000 these are priced higher than a Model S.

 

[deemo]

This is interesting but doesn't answer the basic question - can the Model 3 beat the Taycan in going 2149 miles in the test environment of its choosing not the one Porsche used. I assume Porsche used the best environment for its car. The best environment for the Tesla could be higher speed and cooler conditions.

 

[KenC]

Tesla Bjorn did a hypothetical calculation based upon his earlier 24hr test and extrapolating for some of the benefits Porsche had using the Nardo track, with trackside charging, etc.

 

[Pale_Rider]

And ironically there is a V3 SC in Vegas now...

 

[Zoomit]

Hey @George S. Bower, interesting analysis; a few thoughts and questions:

• The ideal charging profile goes from 10 to 51% in 8.9min per the latest profile. (This is newer than than the one you referenced.)
• The difference in these profiles, with regard to charging time, is pretty small. How quickly you can slow down, get to the charger, connect and get back out is just as important (10's of seconds time).
• Did your 84kW @ 127mph estimate assume 20" wheels/PS4S tires or 18"/Primacy MXM4 tires?
• Does your energy consumption model include density altitude effects? Drag is significantly lower at 42C vs ~20C.
• How did you estimate 12.9 min 10-70% charging for the Taycan? My rough model says that should take 20min. Did you determine that empirically based on the 24hr test results?
• What makes you think V3 Supercharging isn't possible or faster in hot weather? (Ignoring that the third V3 station is already in LV.)
  • "You may not see a V3 SC in Phoenix or Vegas...at least not with the current M3 pack + TMS design."

 

[jboy210]

Does it matter?

Drivers will go less than 75 mph most of the time. What matter most is ability to cruise fast as reasonable on a highway, and the ability to accelerate quickly to get ahead of traffic or merge onto a highway.

 

[Nocturnal]

For the cost you can easily buy 2 P3Ds. Let's do the test again but let the 3 do this in relay races.

I'm all for doing these technical comparisons, but we know it's fluff. I have to believe that the P3D will get an upgraded cooling system at some point.

 

[Chasingmars]

Given the different missions and buyer profiles between a P3 and the Taycan I would not be surprised if the Porsche is pushing their battery much harder than the Tesla for this track demonstration on the assumption a Porsche buyer doing Track work won’t mind killing the battery every so often. Does track mode on a P3 modify the BMS limits? Without knowing if either car is aggressively pushing their BMS durability preservation limits to achieve higher charge rates this is basically a publicity stunt in my opinion.

 

[jboy210]

Given the different missions and buyer profiles between a P3 and the Taycan I would not be surprised if the Porsche is pushing their battery much harder than the Tesla for this track demonstration on the assumption a Porsche buyer doing Track work won’t mind killing the battery every so often. Does track mode on a P3 modify the BMS limits? Without knowing if either car is aggressively pushing their BMS durability preservation limits to achieve higher charge rates this is basically a publicity stunt in my opinion.

For car manufacturers racing has always been a publicity stunt to drive sales. The old adage is "Race on Sunday, Sell on Monday".

 

[lampcord]

Porsche has always been about track ready performance cars that can double as a daily driver. So this test doesn't surprise me. It shows potential owners that they COULD take it to the track and beat on it all day (even though probably 5% of them ever actually do).

But again, this is a $130,000 car. You could buy a P3D as your daily drive and it would be just as fast and have $70k leftover to buy a used track only car which would be much quicker than either of them if that's really something you want to do with your money.

 

[Atari2600]

For the cost you can easily buy 2 P3Ds. Let's do the test again but let the 3 do this in relay races.

That's what I was thinking. If someone was doing multiple races a day I guess you could do that. If you were only doing 1 big race then probably not.

Has anyone driven a P3D on an aircraft carrier yet?

 

[Nocturnal]

Given the different missions and buyer profiles between a P3 and the Taycan I would not be surprised if the Porsche is pushing their battery much harder than the Tesla for this track demonstration on the assumption a Porsche buyer doing Track work won’t mind killing the battery every so often. Does track mode on a P3 modify the BMS limits? Without knowing if either car is aggressively pushing their BMS durability preservation limits to achieve higher charge rates this is basically a publicity stunt in my opinion.

These cars are also less likely to be commuters. I track my car a little bit but I also need it to not blow up while putting 20k miles a year on it commuting. A 130k Porsche is going to sit in the garage most of the time.

 

[PhantomX]

These cars are also less likely to be commuters. I track my car a little bit but I also need it to not blow up while putting 20k miles a year on it commuting. A 130k Porsche is going to sit in the garage most of the time.

A typical 911 Carrera S or Panamera S is over $130K MSRP with typical options. Those cars are commuter cars (see them here on regular basis), and they can go on track fairly easily with little preps, especially the 911.

I also don't understand the comparison between Taycan and Model 3. Besides the performance difference, Taycan will be quieter, more comfortable, more luxurious, and just in general a different class of car. Just because they are both EV's doesn't mean it's an apple to apple comparison. That's almost as bad as people who compare a Corvette to a Ferrari 488.

 

[Nocturnal]

A typical 911 Carrera S or Panamera S is over $130K MSRP with typical options. Those cars are commuter cars (see them here on regular basis), and they can go on track fairly easily with little preps, especially the 911.

I also don't understand the comparison between Taycan and Model 3. Besides the performance difference, Taycan will be quieter, more comfortable, more luxurious, and just in general a different class of car. Just because they are both EV's doesn't mean it's an apple to apple comparison. That's almost as bad as people who compare a Corvette to a Ferrari 488.

Maybe it's a California thing, but in the Midwest and East Coast most 911 range cars are more weekend deals. Perhaps it's because the weather forces you to have something else for the winter.

 

[lampcord]

Wow. I guess the initial pricing was a bit off. The real price is:
'Turbo' - $150,000
'Turbo S' - $185,000
All optioned out 'Turbo S' is $241,000!!!
Porsche Taycan Starts At $150,900, Most Expensive Is $241,150
And we're comparing it with a $58K M3P?

 

[MightyHawk]

After you add in typical Porsche options (I own a Macan S for a few more days), the lower end Taycan will be at least $175k. You can get both a Model S Performance and a Model 3 Performance for less.

 

[CRASHER]

I have ZERO TRUST in what Porsche say. Not the first time they are lying. Only to find out later that they rigged this test run too.
They just got caught AGAIN for rigging their cars for EPA tests. Now they have to pay back to the owners for the extra money they spent on fuel due to misguided EPA figures.

 

[rickdogg82]

For track use, cars really only need to be able to sustain full power for a typical 30-45 minute session. A good 24-hour pace is impressive, but is not relevant in the real world.

And how many Panameras does anyone see at the track? I've never even heard it mentioned (I own a 911 and Tesla Model 3) even though it is a capable track car itself (faster around the 'ring than the Taycan).

 

[cOoTeR]

I would like to see a practical race. Maybe an LA to NY at highway speeds using the existing charging infrastructure. If you're not a race team this would show a more practical comparison.