Could the Model 3 autopilot HW support up to Level 5 autonomous driving?

[coupedncal]

Do we know if the Model 3 autopilot HW will support up to Level 5 autonomous driving? EAP is currently at Level 2 as far as i know.

 

[lunitiks]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: No.

 

[coupedncal]

What about levels 3/4?

 

[lunitiks]

Good question

 

[Phrixotrichus]

What about levels 3/4?

Considering the sensor arrays we see in the development cars of basically everyone except Tesla my bet is that the current hardware will already have big problems with reaching level 3 and level 4 being completely out of reach for most situations.....

 

[SlicedBr3ad]

If your read carefully, you'll realize they never promised lvl 5. They started fsd will work in most situations which is level 4.

 

[lunitiks]

SAE: "The full-time performance by an automated driving system of all aspects of the dynamic driving task under all roadway and environmental conditions that can be managed by a human driver."

Tesla: "In almost all circumstances (...) no action required from the person in the driver's seat (...)"

Forget L5. Never going to happen with AP2.0 or 2.5. Tesla hasn't even claimed that it will. (Well, except for the man himself.)

My biggest concern in terms of L3+ HW, is actually the request to take over signalling (L3/L4).
Audi, GM rattles and shakes your seat/seat belt in addition to light and sound. Tesla merely flashes something on your screen and beeps... Not that SAE defines how this request must be done, but I think Tesla's request could be stronger

 

[Bebop]

The assumption is yes of course. It says on the website plain and clear that it (along with the Model S and X) has the hardware for full self driving. It's been there since 2.0/EAP was introduced and since the Model 3 popped up on the website.

In order for the Tesla Network to work, one would assume L5.

 

[alseTrick]

Tesla is being misleading. No chance the current model 3 hardware is ever fully autonomous. But people will be suckered into buying "full self driving" package anyways.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

Of course it would be level 5.
Tesla would be sued into oblivion otherwise

 

[anonim1979]

No.

There will be a CPU upgrade, to the one that Tesla is making with Samsung.

Develop FSD *first* - then deploy hardware upgrade with enough power.

Anyone that bought FSD now will get it for free, it is the software that is costly not the hardware if you are the owner of all the patents, etc. like Tesla will be in a deal with Samsung.
Those that buy it later might pay more and not only 1000$ if they decide for it after delivery but before FSD will be ready.

If LIDAR will be needed (govenment requiments for example) the mirrors could be replaced too - with ones with integrated LIDAR when that technology matures enough. And gets cheap enough.

 

[diplomat33]

The cameras, radar and ultrasonic sensors part of the hardware are enough for L5 autonomy which is why Tesla and Musk have said that Tesla cars have the hardware necessary for full self-driving. The unknown part is the computer power and the software. I think the current Model 3s will be able to do L3-4 autonomy with the right software. L5 will require further software updates and maybe a computer chip upgrade as well.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Of course it would be level 5.
Tesla would be sued into oblivion otherwise

I doubt it. The current description for FSD could be as low as really good SAE Level 2. As long as they deliver what they state on their website, they're good, independent of any puffery by salespeople/others.

 

[MotoEvCA]

Considering the sensor arrays we see in the development cars of basically everyone except Tesla my bet is that the current hardware will already have big problems with reaching level 3 and level 4 being completely out of reach for most situations.....

I was told by a Tesla representative the company would install the necessary hardware (as a retrofit) should the FSD option require it to meet the stated goals. Not a contractual obligation but a commitment from Tesla.

 

[MotoEvCA]

Of course it would be level 5.
Tesla would be sued into oblivion otherwise

How do you figure? There is no contractual obligation to provide Level 5 autonomy with anything currently on offer from Tesla.

Most consumers do not understand contract law and are too arrogant to admit it. The forward-looking statements on the Tesla site regarding FSD are nothing more than marketing language.

 

[SlicedBr3ad]

I doubt it. The current description for FSD could be as low as really good SAE Level 2. As long as they deliver what they state on their website, they're good, independent of any puffery by salespeople/others.

Level 2 is far cry from fill settle driving.

 

[SlicedBr3ad]

SAE: "The full-time performance by an automated driving system of all aspects of the dynamic driving task under all roadway and environmental conditions that can be managed by a human driver."

Tesla: "In almost all circumstances (...) no action required from the person in the driver's seat (...)"

Forget L5. Never going to happen with AP2.0 or 2.5. Tesla hasn't even claimed that it will. (Well, except for the man himself.)

My biggest concern in terms of L3+ HW, is actually the request to take over signalling (L3/L4).
Audi, GM rattles and shakes your seat/seat belt in addition to light and sound. Tesla merely flashes something on your screen and beeps... Not that SAE defines how this request must be done, but I think Tesla's request could be stronger

Thank you for digging this up. This is exactly what I was referring to in my post. There isn't even a promise of lvl 5. Always remember, sales and marketing always oversell vs actual/promised functionality and here, they're clearly promising SAE lvl4.

 

[lunitiks]

The cameras, radar and ultrasonic sensors part of the hardware are enough for L5 autonomy

Picture time

 

[voip-ninja]

Do we know if the Model 3 autopilot HW will support up to Level 5 autonomous driving? EAP is currently at Level 2 as far as i know.

Based on the number of executives and engineers working on FSD who have quit over Elmo's promises on self driving I think it's pretty clear the answer is no.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Thank you for digging this up. This is exactly what I was referring to in my post. There isn't even a promise of lvl 5. Always remember, sales and marketing always oversell vs actual/promised functionality and here, they're clearly promising SAE lvl4.

They aren't promising level 4 based on the line I've underlined/italicized from their FSD description, outside of summoning in parking lots/driveways of course. With level 4, you can be anywhere in the car during the drive. It might promise level 3, but I'm not sure about that. Being designed to conduct trips with no action required could be really good level 2 depending on how they define an action.

My guess is they intend to provide level 4 summoning in driveways/parking lots, level 3 in the specific situations they referenced, urban and freeway driving, better level 2 on suburban and rural roads, and who knows what offroad. But... because they don't use the same technical language SAE uses, I don't see anything that legally requires them to provide level 3 in urban/freeway driving.

https://www.sae.org/misc/pdfs/automated_driving.pdf

Full Self-Driving Capability
Build upon Enhanced Autopilot and order Full Self-Driving Capability on your Tesla. This doubles the number of active cameras from four to eight, enabling full self-driving in almost all circumstances, at what we believe will be a probability of safety at least twice as good as the average human driver. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. For Superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle.

All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you.

Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction. It is not possible to know exactly when each element of the functionality described above will be available, as this is highly dependent on local regulatory approval. Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year.