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Could this be Fraud?

Discussion in 'Model X: Battery & Charging' started by CC with the X, Jan 24, 2017.

  1. CC with the X

    CC with the X Member

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    I have a new X P90D with 22" wheels. Fully charged it shows 253 miles. I live 2 miles from the freeway and it is 216 miles ALL HIGHWAY with a speed limit of 70 to my beachhouse from a elevation of 783 feet to a final elevation of sea level( so essentially slight downhill).

    i was told at the Tesla Dealer that the car could go 250 miles. When I enter the addresses in the nav computer it says I cannot make that distance and I will have to stop at an SC (24 miles off route and 20 min charge time)

    I'M PISSED! I WOULD HAVE UPGRADED TO A 100 BATTERY.

    Thoughts?

    Anyone think a complaint would merit a refund/upgrade possibility from Tesla?

    Capture3.JPG
     
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  2. utmo

    utmo Member

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    Did you factor in the fact that you have 22" wheels which explicitly state will have a negative impact on range?
     
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  3. Deans

    Deans Member

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    Also, the stated range is at 55mph hour I think. 70mph will decrease the range.
     
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  4. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Active Member

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    The 257 advertised rating is per the EPA guidelines which is not at 70mph and not in the cold. Even the most cursory search would have told you that you can only get that range under ideal circumstances. If you want to make that distance, just go slower.
     
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  5. Dwdnjck

    Dwdnjck Member

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    Tesla really needs to do a better job screening their customers.
     
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  6. Deans

    Deans Member

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    Looking on their website, I think you should still have no problem getting there at 70mph according to this (scroll to bottom of webpage):

    Model S | Tesla

    216 miles should make it even if traffic is heavy. Just need to be able to charge at beach house of course. Maybe nav is just being conservative? I'm assuming you are going there when the weather is above 32 degrees.
     
  7. BestRadar

    BestRadar Member

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    He has a Model X not an S.
     
  8. Deans

    Deans Member

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    Oh, yeah, um, drive slowly then. My bad. Interesting that the site doesn't have a calculator for the X.
     
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  9. Deans

    Deans Member

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    The S loses above 25% of EPA range by driving at 70mph. So I would expect the X won't make it 216 at 70mph.
    If it makes you feel any better, the 100D would have zero room for error at 70mph as well.
     
  10. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    While I whole heartedly disagree with the OP, a very valid point does exist within the rant... Tesla, and other BEV manufacturers, need to come up with a better way of estimating range and explaining to the perspective customer how things like speed and weather affect that range. Tesla slaps on the EPA number and essentially says "don't blame us you're not getting the mileage, blame the EPA, it was their test"...

    The EPA test needs to be updated to reflect more real world driving conditions and speed limits, say 65 vs 55... Then Tesla should do it's own testing at 75 and then split the difference or some combination like that...

    Jeff
     
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  11. thefortunes

    thefortunes Member

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    Not to be argumentative (well maybe :rolleyes:) but if you are saying Tesla and other BEV manufacturers should explain this to the customer, then shouldn't ICE manufacturers do the same?
     
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  12. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    Apples and oranges. They're completely different things and I suspect you already know that... Almost no one cares about how far you can go on a tank of gas because there are refueling stations essentially everywhere there is even a hint of civilization. Furthermore, ICEs are by and large not as affected by cold/weather as their BEV counterparts. That's not to say you can go the same on a tank of gas in the dead of winter vs the dead of summer but the differences aren't nearly as pronounced as they are in BEVs.

    Again, apples and oranges...

    Jeff
     
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  13. Troy

    Troy Active Member

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    #13 Troy, Jan 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
    Hi.

    In short term:
    • Replace the 22" wheels with 20". This will increase your range about 10-15% based on data that used to be on the Model X design studio. The disclaimer is not there anymore.
    • Drive slower. Speed has by far the most impact on range.

    [​IMG]

    In long term, you could consider switching to a Model X 100D or P100D.

    The store employee was telling you the EPA rated range. Tesla is not responsible for slightly optimistic test methods by the EPA. On the EPA website you can see that the 2016 Model X P90D has 250 miles rated range. You can see that on the following page under the small car icon:

    2016 Tesla Model X AWD - P90D

    In the USA Tesla is legally required to advertise the EPA rated range. For example, your window sticker will also show 250 miles EPA rated range. However, EPA's test methods are slightly optimistic which is not Tesla's fault. For example, in Europe, Tesla doesn't have to advertise EPA rated range. Therefore they created a range unit called 'typical range' which they use everywhere outside North America. Model X P90D cars sold in Europe display 378 km typical range which is 235 miles. That's closer to actual range in good weather and average speed.
     
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  14. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    I have a Lexus that says 23/28 City/Highway driving. I typically never get close to that except on nice warm days and I don't use AC and I maintain 65 mph with no elevation gain. I haven't seen anyone suing Toyota for that.

    I believe you can make 216 miles, on 20" wheels, maintaining 70 mph on days that are above 60F.

    How do you plan to charge at your destination? You would need a 240 V/50 amp charger in your beach house.
     
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  15. thefortunes

    thefortunes Member

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    Not apples and oranges at all.

    Physics is physics - speed has the same impact on range in an EV or an ICE, as does weather (rain, wind, snow, density of air, etc...).

    If you were arguing that the heater in an EV has a greater impact on range than in an ICE, I would agree since the ICE is using a waste by-product (but that isn't what you said in your original post or even here).

    The difference is that most people do not religiously track their range/fuel usage in an ICE and have been trained (since there are refueling stations everywhere) that they don't need to. Those people who do will tell you they get the same hit in an ICE as they do in an EV for speed and weather.
     
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  16. BerTX

    BerTX Active Member

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    Exactly right. The only difference is the effect on battery power due to cold, plus increased heating cost at some temperatures.. Wind, rain, snow -- they all affect range of an ICE the same way as an EV. ICE drivers can afford to be oblivious to those effects 99%+ of the time because it just means stopping more frequently for fuel, which can be done in any location.
     
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  17. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    No.

    (To answer the OP's question)
     
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  18. thefortunes

    thefortunes Member

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    Actually, the 55mph range is IDEAL range, not RATED (based on EPA test cycles) range.

    Per the Tesla website, Deans is somewhat correct that you lose ~25% of the IDEAL range increasing your speed from 55mph to 70mph.

    However, the S loses about 7%-9% of the RATED (EPA) range if you travel at 70mph. Obviously you lose even more the faster you go (and it is not linear, drag is impacted by velocity squared).

    +1
     
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  19. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker S 90D 2017.42

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    I tracked my 20 year old CR-V for over 200,000 miles and agree. My 1997 CR-V was rated at 19 mpg city, 23 mpg highway, 21 mpg combined. On nice summer days, I usually exceeded the EPA mileage and often got 29 to 30 mpg or more. On cold days with snow and ice or strong winds, I would get 22-23 mpg. I would also get worse mileage when going fast so I often would only go 70 or 72 mph on long road trips. My absolute worse mileage was one tank at 19 mpg. Over the 200,000 miles, I averaged over 25 mpg. Fuelly didn't exist 20 years ago but I tracked every tank in Excel. Here's my last 80 fill-ups showing I averaged better than the EPA estimates. Chart of 80 most recent mpg results.
     
  20. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    I continue to be amazed at how little research some people do before a major purchase such as a high five figure or six figure EV.
     
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