Could this be Fraud?

[PeterK]

Look at plugshare.com and see your other charging options. Buy yourself a Chademo adapter. You may never need it, but it is always good to have. Then make the drive and see how it goes. Stop and charge if you need to. My experience is the trip planner is overly conservative in the beginning and is more accurate after a few miles of driving.

Or drive a little slower and find a Level 2 charger along the way, where you can have a nice meal and add a 20-mile buffer. I got my S85 in early 2013, and until 2015 there was no supercharger on a 245 mile route I take from Boston to the Adirondack Mountains 4-6 times a year. I learned to drive a little slower and we discovered the town of Montpelier, VT, with two L2 chargers and some nice restaurants, coffee, gelato and other shops to visit. Vs. our former "pit stop" approach for gas and fast food. It took more time but made the trip much more enjoyable.

Of course, now there are FOUR Superchargers along the route (Hooksett and W. Lebanon NH, Lincoln and S. Burlington VT) and a fifth (Plattsburgh NY) not far from my destination - and we're back to stopping at McDonald's or Panera while Supercharging the X. :-(

 

[Bishop]

i understand the point your trying to make but on the other hand i shouldn't have to goto a internet forum to get technical details about a 150k purchase. Two of the things i've always been disappointed with tesla about are the lack of communication and the lack of meeting a deadline. I cant remember how many times I call to ask a tech question or even a part number and they say " we'll call you back " and they never do.

 

[RayW]

Don't forget to include every automobile manufacture on the planet as co-defendants in your lawsuit. Might as well include the EPA for good measure

No car has ever gotten it's EPA mileage outside of the EPA test track.

 

[NikeWings]

I ran out of gas once in my life......I learned instantly it was my responsibility to fix the situation, and ensure it didn't happen again.
I never thought of blaming it on the dealer. Damn!

 

[MorrisonHiker]

No car has ever gotten it's EPA mileage outside of the EPA test track.

That's not true. In my 20 year old CR-V, I averaged over 25 mpg over 200,000+ miles and it was only rated at 21 mpg combined. The fact that I live in Colorado (high elevation) and that most of my miles were highway miles contributed to me getting 20% better than EPA estimated mpg over the last 20 years. Just because some drivers don't get EPA mileage doesn't mean it's not possible.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

i understand the point your trying to make but on the other hand i shouldn't have to goto a internet forum to get technical details about a 150k purchase. Two of the things i've always been disappointed with tesla about are the lack of communication and the lack of meeting a deadline. I cant remember how many times I call to ask a tech question or even a part number and they say " we'll call you back " and they never do.

The information you have missed is relevant to vehicles much cheaper than $150k. I don't think you can blame Tesla for not filling in 100% of the holes in your understanding of BEVs.

I think you're overlooking some personal responsibility here.

 

[muleferg]

Tesla really needs to do a better job screening their customers.

Yes

 

[JetKit]

While I whole heartedly disagree with the OP, a very valid point does exist within the rant... Tesla, and other BEV manufacturers, need to come up with a better way of estimating range and explaining to the perspective customer how things like speed and weather affect that range. Tesla slaps on the EPA number and essentially says "don't blame us you're not getting the mileage, blame the EPA, it was their test"...

The EPA test needs to be updated to reflect more real world driving conditions and speed limits, say 65 vs 55... Then Tesla should do it's own testing at 75 and then split the difference or some combination like that...

Jeff

Absolutely.

For reference, our Mercedes B-class with Tesla guts is spot on on the range prediction.
Both our Tesla MS and Nissan Leaf lie shameless on their range predictions, no matter what we do or how we drive (if I drive at 55, it still estimates more than I get)
If the B says I have 50 miles to go, I get 50+ without concerns. If I misbehave on driving, it adjusts on the fly. That is the only car we have that does not give us range anxiety. I drove it for months back and forth to Miami - an 86 mile commute without issues.
The Leaf I cut 30% off its prediction if I am lucky. What a joke. Some mornings I depart with 85 miles range, and by the end of the driveway it consumed 15 miles....
The Tesla is a bit better than the Leaf, but really for a car that we paid 6 times more, it should be spot on.
I am so mad on the Tesla's range prediction that my display now only shows % of battery.

 

[MXWing]

My wife said our Volt was broken because it says it had 52 miles electric range but switched to battery after 25 miles.

52 miles is for flat surfaces. Not uphill climbs. Gas mileage goes down as well under "non optimal conditions".

 

[jbcarioca]

...
I am so mad on the Tesla's range prediction that my display now only shows % of battery.

Driving a BEV is certainly not equal to an ICE. Also the assumptions made in range calculations are never spot on consistently unless by chance driver, road and weather conditions happen to coincide with each other.
Most people I know default to SOC also, including me. One rapidly learns how to manage the process efficiently.
As many of us have said, until BEV's have an EPA rated range of >500 miles there will continue to be planning problems. There are places with no speed limits, mountains, extreme cold and nasty weather. All of those destroy range, so only too much will be enough.
That said, at 28,000 miles I average 306Wh/mi and normally get just about EPA rated range. I do not have cold, mountains or high speeds. So, of course I would. I am waiting for >500 mi RR. That will make it easier for non-early-adopters.

 

[thefortunes]

Absolutely.

For reference, our Mercedes B-class with Tesla guts is spot on on the range prediction.
Both our Tesla MS and Nissan Leaf lie shameless on their range predictions, no matter what we do or how we drive (if I drive at 55, it still estimates more than I get)
If the B says I have 50 miles to go, I get 50+ without concerns. If I misbehave on driving, it adjusts on the fly. That is the only car we have that does not give us range anxiety. I drove it for months back and forth to Miami - an 86 mile commute without issues.
The Leaf I cut 30% off its prediction if I am lucky. What a joke. Some mornings I depart with 85 miles range, and by the end of the driveway it consumed 15 miles....
The Tesla is a bit better than the Leaf, but really for a car that we paid 6 times more, it should be spot on.
I am so mad on the Tesla's range prediction that my display now only shows % of battery.

Maybe this is the cause behind so much of the confusion and concern?

The battery display on the dash is not a range prediction. It is either set to IDEAL range (55mph, level ground, no HVAC), RATED range (EPA cycle testing) or % SOC. It does not reflect PROJECTED (based on last xx miles of driving) range.

PROJECTED range, based on your last xx miles of driving, can only be seen in the Energy App consumption screen. You can monitor your progress (+/- original estimate) on the Energy App trip screen, which many of us find to be very accurate for longer trips.

In my cross country trip, using the Energy App I was able to adjust my charging and driving dynamically to minimize both supercharger and drive time. I always hit superchargers with <10% remaining, often with 2-5%.

 

[jaguar36]

I am so mad on the Tesla's range prediction that my display now only shows % of battery.

That is not a range prediction. If you want a range prediction turn on the trip planner, which is usually fairly accurate in normal conditions once you get onto the highway (assuming you maintain your speed and the weather doesn't change).

 

[Zaphod]

The information you have missed is relevant to vehicles much cheaper than $150k. I don't think you can blame Tesla for not filling in 100% of the holes in your understanding of BEVs.

I think you're overlooking some personal responsibility here.

How dare you suggest personal responsibility. That is an outrage sir, an outrage! /sarcasm

 

[Electric700]

Screening the customers? How about EDUCATING the customer? Still, 216 vs 257 - that's a 16% difference.

I agree with you, better education about EV range expectations is probably needed. Here are some of your options:

1. Explain to a Tesla Sales manager your disappointment along with your unique situation, and request a 100D upgrade.

2. Wait for a Supercharger to be built at a more convenient location. You can contact Tesla directly about requesting this.

 

[flar]

I had a long message written about the efficiency of the routes shown on the map in the OP but then I realized that it was a cut/paste from Google Maps showing "scenic route alternatives" rather than the recommended route proposed by the car to include the supercharger. D'oh!

But, to echo what someone else said above, typing in the cities in Google Maps and adding an intermediate stop for either the Columbia or the Santee superchargers show that the Santee charger has a much smaller side route (both in miles and time). Also the Santee supercharger is closer to the destination which means you arrive at the beach house with more usable range.

(And the acronyms get really difficult when talking about the SCs in SC and the lack of SCs in the area. South Carolina? SuperCharger? Service Center?)

 

[JetKit]

That is not a range prediction. If you want a range prediction turn on the trip planner, which is usually fairly accurate in normal conditions once you get onto the highway (assuming you maintain your speed and the weather doesn't change).

Thank you. The trip planner works quite well. I just did a round trip to Orlando. It properly indicated where to stop for supercharge, how long to stay, and estimated % battery remaining at destination.
As I changed speed or driving attitude, the trip planner adjusted in fair time. Got me back home with 11% as predicted.

 

[Lerxt]

I have a new X P90D with 22" wheels. Fully charged it shows 253 miles. I live 2 miles from the freeway and it is 216 miles ALL HIGHWAY with a speed limit of 70 to my beachhouse from a elevation of 783 feet to a final elevation of sea level( so essentially slight downhill).

i was told at the Tesla Dealer that the car could go 250 miles. When I enter the addresses in the nav computer it says I cannot make that distance and I will have to stop at an SC (24 miles off route and 20 min charge time)

I'M PISSED! I WOULD HAVE UPGRADED TO A 100 BATTERY.

Thoughts?

Anyone think a complaint would merit a refund/upgrade possibility from Tesla?

View attachment 21190

Dealer?

Oh yeah, to answer your question...No.

 

[EVie'sDad]

The P is less efficient than the standard D, and did you engage Range Mode? if not, try this, try turning off AC (only use seat heaters) and keep it at or below 65 mph. I am sure you will make it. It is important to consider your travel routines when researching the ideal vehicle, why did you find it necessary to get a P?

 

[FlyF4]

After seeing this post, my wife wants to charge me with fraud. I gave her the checkbox and explicitly stated we had only X amount of money in the bank, yet she went out on a spending spree and came home to complain that she didn't have enough money to buy everything she went out to get.

Ok, it is a sarcastic metaphor. I am not trying to be disrespectful. Just greatly disagreeing that Tesla might be committing fraud. I think better customer research is in order before taking the trip.

 

[cpa]

Fraud is a mighty strong word. I have seen a few real-life frauds in my day, and this situation does not meet anyone's standard of fraud.

We have guidelines issued by all sorts of governmental agencies that try to put some consistency in evaluating and analyzing products. Look at your food labels with the nutritional content of the products. Do you think that if you assayed every package for calories, protein, carbohydrate, fat plus all the vitamins, minerals and trace elements that each time your analysis would equal what is printed on the package?

I am old enough to remember the "science" behind consuming fat in our diet. Fats were evil, and they contributed a lot to heart disease and high cholesterol. All fats, not just animal fat. Eggs were assumed to be bad for us too. Today, the consensus is much different.

Evaluating BEVs for total range, especially in light of the scarcity of charging locations, is in its infancy. Tesla is going with the approved rating for range that every other BEV manufacturer uses. This can scarcely be considered fraud.