CPO buying price/fees/taxes

[seenhear]

I'm considering an upgrade to my Model S75 via a CPO purchase.

Does anyone know what the fees and taxes are when buying a CPO Tesla from out of state, and having it delivered in California?
CA DMV shows that used car fees and taxes should be roughly $15 plus about 9.x% tax on the sale price. If Tesla wants $2k to bring the vehicle to my local delivery location, is that $2k taxable?

And yes, I would also consider the option of flying out to the car's location and enjoying a road trip home in it, but that's not ideal for me right now.

 

[beatle]

I'm not sure what the differences are between CA and VA, but I'm currently going through the order process for another Model S. On the first page of the MVPA it calculates the price of the car with these addons on top of the vehicle price:

Destination Fee
Order Fee
Transportation Fee (if applicable)
Carrier Direct Fee (if applicable)
Order Modification Fee (if applicable)

These are totaled and carried to the next page that uses the total as a basis for calculating the tax, so I'd say the $2k is taxable. I have about $178 in other non-taxable fees for registration, title, and filing - most of that being registration where VA penalizes EVs.

 

[ucmndd]

I'm considering an upgrade to my Model S75 via a CPO purchase.

Does anyone know what the fees and taxes are when buying a CPO Tesla from out of state, and having it delivered in California?
CA DMV shows that used car fees and taxes should be roughly $15 plus about 9.x% tax on the sale price. If Tesla wants $2k to bring the vehicle to my local delivery location, is that $2k taxable?

And yes, I would also consider the option of flying out to the car's location and enjoying a road trip home in it, but that's not ideal for me right now.

You'll pay tax/registration just like you would on a used car sitting on a lot in CA. You can use the calculator on the DMV site to get an exact figure.

Transportation is a service, not a good, so would generally not be taxable.

 

[glide]

Are you really asking if you have to pay tax on a fee?

I mean…I guess it is California after all, so anything goes!

 

[seenhear]

Petty.
You were snarky in your response to my thread. You offered nothing of value; instead you insult me and the state in which I live. So I downvoted your comment. In response you downvote my OP. Wow.

 

[glide]

View attachment 881828
Petty.
You were snarky in your response to my thread. You offered nothing of value; instead you insult me and the state in which I live. So I downvoted your comment. In response you downvote my OP. Wow.

Petty? You got internet-sad because you feel I insulted you (I didn’t) and the place you live (it was more a bureaucratic insult, but okay).

Realize this is a ridiculous question for anyone else in the civilized world.

If you want a real answer; call Tesla and ask how they address that line item and if it is applicable to/complies with California tax code. Otherwise you get what you get.

 

[beatle]

Transportation is a service, not a good, so would generally not be taxable.

That's generally true, but looking at the order/purchase agreement for my Lightning, I paid tax on freight. The buyer's order page has the top line "price including freight." To that they also added the dealer's processing fee ($799) on which I also paid tax. Yes, there was an argument.

Unlike a car repair where parts are taxed and the labor to R&R them are not, the state must consider the transportation of the vehicle to you as part of the vehicle itself - kind of like paying for a prepared meal at a restaurant doesn't itemize the ingredients and the service to cook and serve them to you since you cannot just order the ingredients.

I'm not sure how this works on a similar product/service like having food delivered since I'm too cheap to do that.

 

[seenhear]

Petty? You got internet-sad because you feel I insulted you (I didn’t) and the place you live (it was more a bureaucratic insult, but okay).

Realize this is a ridiculous question for anyone else in the civilized world.

If you want a real answer; call Tesla and ask how they address that line item and if it is applicable to/complies with California tax code. Otherwise you get what you get.

Yeah, Petty. Your post was not helpful so got downvoted. Simple. Not because I was sad. Calling out the insulting aspect of your post was just illustrative of why it wasn't helpful.
You got hurt feelings over getting downvoted and downvoted in reaction, not because of anything else. The timing of it was obvious.

If you took the time to read some of the other responses, you'll see that it's not always black and white what a given state considers a taxable line-item.
I've never bought a CPO car from Tesla (or any dealer that involved some sort of delivery) so haven't seen an invoice for one showing what was taxed.
For my new car purchase in 2017, there were definitely "fees" that were taxed.

So take your arrogant attitude elsewhere. Thanks.

 

[father_of_6]

To that they also added the dealer's processing fee ($799) on which I also paid tax. Yes, there was an argument.

I think this is just a word game. For the dealership, they get to advertise one price and then tack $800 onto it. If the state were to forego sales tax on all "fees" though, the dealer could sell you the car for $10,000 and then tack on an "inventory reduction fee" of $60k to avoid the sales tax (which would let them charge you more for the car).

Perhaps I'm just ignorant, but I've never known "fees" to be universally non-taxable. Your land is taxed, your property is taxed, your income is taxed, your purchases are taxed, and your death is taxed... but somehow "fees" escape taxation... that just doesn't ring true to me.

My expectation for buying out of state is that you're likely to pay the same amount of taxes, assuming it's all by the books. There are definitely people who buy their cars in Delaware from surrounding states and don't report the use tax.

 

[ucmndd]

That's generally true, but looking at the order/purchase agreement for my Lightning, I paid tax on freight. The buyer's order page has the top line "price including freight." To that they also added the dealer's processing fee ($799) on which I also paid tax. Yes, there was an argument.

The difference here may be that the freight/destination charge is a mandatory fee included in the price of the car itself, charged by the manufacturer, and inextricable from the purchase of the product.

I'm not an expert here so simply speculating, but in my mind an additional transportation fee charged by a dealer to move a vehicle in inventory from one location to another is a service being provided that could be a completely separate transaction from purchasing the vehicle itself. If I pay to have a vehicle transported from my home to somewhere else, I don't pay sales tax on that service.

I'm sure plenty of transactions get this stuff wrong though.

 

[beatle]

I think this is just a word game. For the dealership, they get to advertise one price and then tack $800 onto it. If the state were to forego sales tax on all "fees" though, the dealer could sell you the car for $10,000 and then tack on an "inventory reduction fee" of $60k to avoid the sales tax (which would let them charge you more for the car).

Perhaps I'm just ignorant, but I've never known "fees" to be universally non-taxable. Your land is taxed, your property is taxed, your income is taxed, your purchases are taxed, and your death is taxed... but somehow "fees" escape taxation... that just doesn't ring true to me.

My expectation for buying out of state is that you're likely to pay the same amount of taxes, assuming it's all by the books. There are definitely people who buy their cars in Delaware from surrounding states and don't report the use tax.

It is almost surely a word game by the dealer. In some cases an unscrupulous dealer may also add mandatory options at an obscene markup in an attempt to raise the price without raising the MSRP. This generally doesn't apply to Tesla, however.

For the OP, even if you have bought from Tesla before, the experience and costs may be different. See my thread in the purchasing subforum about being forced to take delivery in VA if I am registering a car in VA. I purchased my first Model S used from Tesla in 2019 and flew out to Chicago to pick it up and drive it back. Now they're saying I can't do that. In my case, avoiding the transportation fee was not about whether it would be taxed - it was whether I paid it at all.

It does look like regardless of whether you are charged a "destination fee" for transport of a new car from the factory to your local SC, or a "transportation fee" from a holding lot to your local SC, both are taxable. I don't like it but...

 

[beatle]

I'm not an expert here so simply speculating, but in my mind an additional transportation fee charged by a dealer to move a vehicle in inventory from one location to another is a service being provided that could be a completely separate transaction from purchasing the vehicle itself. If I pay to have a vehicle transported from my home to somewhere else, I don't pay sales tax on that service.

Yes, I agree that it should be a separate transaction and not taxed. I wonder if it has something to do with how they account for their costs/sales, and fluffing their sales numbers with transportation fees is in their best interest, evei if that means sticking their customer with unnecessary tax liability.

I also had the experience of buying a motorcycle from a dealership in New Orleans while I lived in VA. I had a private shipper pick up the bike after I closed the sale with the dealer and I didn't pay tax on the service, but that was truly a 3rd party transaction.

 

[glide]

Yeah, Petty. Your post was not helpful so got downvoted. Simple. Not because I was sad. Calling out the insulting aspect of your post was just illustrative of why it wasn't helpful.
You got hurt feelings over getting downvoted and downvoted in reaction, not because of anything else. The timing of it was obvious.

If you took the time to read some of the other responses, you'll see that it's not always black and white what a given state considers a taxable line-item.
I've never bought a CPO car from Tesla (or any dealer that involved some sort of delivery) so haven't seen an invoice for one showing what was taxed.
For my new car purchase in 2017, there were definitely "fees" that were taxed.

View attachment 882111
View attachment 882116
So take your arrogant attitude elsewhere. Thanks.

It’s not arrogance. You clearly have no understanding of what is taxable.

Nor does the state of California.

I’ll give you an example; normally vehicles are taxed at the point of registration. California taxes at the point of sale. The only other state that I am aware of that pulls this nonsense is Taxachusetts. Is it legal? Questionable. Are you going to be the one to fight the good fight? No.

So pay your taxes on your fees and be a good subject. But don’t get mad at me because you live in a state that likes to bend the rules. Thanks.

 

[seenhear]

It’s not arrogance. You clearly have no understanding of what is taxable.

Nor does the state of California.

I’ll give you an example; normally vehicles are taxed at the point of registration. California taxes at the point of sale. The only other state that I am aware of that pulls this nonsense is Taxachusetts. Is it legal? Questionable. Are you going to be the one to fight the good fight? No.

So pay your taxes on your fees and be a good subject. But don’t get mad at me because you live in a state that likes to bend the rules. Thanks.

ROTFL! I am not mad at you. I rate your posts as unhelpful that's all. You're the one getting all wound up over it. You haven't provided any helpful information on this topic in any of your posts to it. So you get the little thumbs-down icon. You vote my posts down because your feewings got hurded.

I don't care what is philosophically taxable in a law school classroom, or what your state does. I happen to know a fair amount about law and tax, for a lay person. For the purposes of this discussion, I made it very clear in the OP: I care about the practice of Tesla in CA, and what to expect at the bottom line.

You're right on one point, I am not going to fight over a few hundred bucks, beyond requesting they re-write the invoice. If they won't / can't, I'm still going to buy the car. Tax on a $2k delivery fee, if it does show up, is less than 1% of the price of the car. Not a deal-breaker.

 

[seenhear]

Yes, I agree that it should be a separate transaction and not taxed. I wonder if it has something to do with how they account for their costs/sales,

The strange thing is, if I get a lift out to Reno and buy a used car private-party, and then drive home and register my newly purchased car in CA. I pay tax only on the purchase price of the car that the seller and I agreed upon. I don't pay tax on my cost to drive it home.

It doesn't make sense for it to be taxable. But a corporation like Tesla is *probably* going to be legit when it comes to stuff like this. It's not like they gain anything by taxing the delivery fee do they? If I pay an extra $180 in tax on the $2k delivery fee, then they have to send that tax money to the state of CA; they don't keep it. So if they weren't required to do this, I don't see why they would.

 

[glide]

I happen to know a fair amount about law and tax, for a lay person.

Clearly you do not or you wouldn’t be asking this question.

For the purposes of this discussion, I made it very clear in the OP: I care about the practice of Tesla in CA, and what to expect at the bottom line.

Ask Tesla. Tax collection practices change based on their relationship with the state of CA. See my, and others’ posts, re: collecting tax at point of sale.

You're right on one point, I am not going to fight over a few hundred bucks, beyond requesting they re-write the invoice. If they won't / can't, I'm still going to buy the car.

So why even bring this up? You don’t care and it’s not going to stop you from buying the car. It’s literally the definition of a moot point.

Tax on a $2k delivery fee, if it does show up, is less than 1% of the price of the car. Not a deal-breaker

See above.

 

[glide]

The strange thing is, if I get a lift out to Reno and buy a used car private-party, and then drive home and register my newly purchased car in CA. I pay tax only on the purchase price of the car that the seller and I agreed upon. I don't pay tax on my cost to drive it home.

Funny how that works. It’s literally what I have been telling you. This is a state of California issue with their current “interpretation” of the tax code.

 

[seenhear]

Funny how that works. It’s literally what I have been telling you. This is a state of California issue with their current “interpretation” of the tax code.

Like I said, nothing you've posted has been helpful. I asked if anyone knew what ACTUALLY happens with a CPO sale delivery fee for out of state shipping to CA. You don't know.
Fees are OBVIOUSLY taxed in some cases, no matter what you or any of us thinks is logical or correct. I just was asking if anyone knew what happens in this specific case.

 

[ucmndd]

Glide is here to piss in cheerios. It’s literally the only thing he does. Best to just ignore.

 

[mrjedistud]

I thought tesla did away with CPO?