davewill
Active Member
I couldn't figure out what he was saying. I still don't know what he is asking for.
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CPO program
- Thread starter Alysashley79
- Start date
breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Nope.
Ever since Tesla introduced TACC there has been no cruise control without TACC. The belief is that Tesla is concerned that people would become confused and expect the car to slow down and prevent them from rear-ending other cars, since that is what would happen if TACC was enabled.
Bressr is correct the op (me) is a she! Not all MS drivers are men.
Im not necessarily "asking" for anything was just stating some facts about the CPO program.
I guess I was stating my opinion that it would be nice for all cars CPO or otherwise to be 6 years 100k miles and btw @davewill we are paying 100 grand for these cars so none of this process is free. Yes I'm sure they've built in a pad for the extra warranty but when you look at the facts of the CPO most of their cars have less than 20k on the ODO in fact I asked for the highest mileage they had and it was 19,500 ish.
arijaycomet
Member
Interesting input here (above quotes). What I'd really love to see would be a side-by-side comparison of a car that is CPO vs Inventory. It seems like the price per month in-service plus mileage might allow for a CPO car to be cheaper -- but that isn't necessarily the case. If they add in cost like Audi/BMW do (CPO cars demand $2,500+ more often times because that is the "cost to certify them") that will add longer warranty, but also more cost.
To put it another way.... what makes more sense to each buyer will differ. If you can find a high enough mileage car with few enough options, the discount on an inventory car versus CPO car COULD potentially be a very interesting comparison. From what I recall, most inventory cars only demanded around $10k off at the low end (the cars with $15k off MSRP inventory were more "loaded" with options, and hence were more expensive net anyhow). To me the CPO needs to attract people who can't afford $85-95k cars... so we're talking $60-75k price point ideally. Inventory cars aren't that cheap... but are CPOs? Hmmm...
see page 2 I have a CPO quote vs the original price. I also received a comparably priced inventory car for $87k it had a couple less things but it was new with less than 1000 miles on the ODO and had auto pilot vs the CPO doesn't.
arijaycomet
Member
Yeah I had read/seen that. But I honestly don't think that is the "target" CPO audience. People who can afford this car (or let me stay, people who can pay $97k) are often times just as happy to spend the extra money for a new car. Or buy one with the exact options they want. For me I'm at the lower end of the income spectrum (based on the poll located in these forums of annual gross income). For me, saving $9,500 on an inventory car made sense, but I wanted the $7500 tax refund this year because of some unusual tax situations I was in for 2014.
But I digress. My point was that you only listed one car, and at $97k there are still MANY versions of a Tesla people could buy for less (Model S 85 starts at $17k less!) --- in my "mind" (and I could be wrong here), the CPO program needs to help bridge the gap between the existing cheaper cars ($30-50k for current BEVs) and the entry level Tesla right now ($70k entry). What that means is that the ideal CPO would be $50-80k roughly, for cars that are now a few years old.
I've been "volunteering" at the local Tesla store, and as you would suspect, most people are "waiting for the Model 3" -- so the question is, would some of those people take a Model S right now if the price was right? And what "is" affordable to that demographic? I'm not sure who Tesla hopes to target with the CPO program, since those who buy a used Tesla lose out on the $7500 federal tax credit (and I'm assuming states that offer rebates also require a new purchase? I'm in Ohio so I have no clue how those work-- only Federal here).
My car had a $95k MSRP and I got it for $85k (inventory car) PLUS a $7500 tax refund. That meant I essentially paid $78k for a $95k car. Your listing on pg-2 shows a car that was $116.5k for $97k, or a difference of $19.5k -- compared to my $17k savings. For a difference of $2,500 my argument would simply be what is the incentive to buy CPO versus used? Now again we're comparing apples-to-oranges because my car (85 non-perf) versus your example (P85+) -- but both cars are pre-auto-pilot. And when I was shopping my car in December, pre-auto-pilot P85s were out there for $15-20k off MSRP (similar to your pricing).
My point in closing is this....the CPO program, like the inventory program, is great. I'd personally just had hopes it would help allow more people to enter into Tesla ownership at the "lower" price point, not just simply discounting existing high-end cars down to low-end prices. Again, Ive spoken to a LOT of potential Tesla owners whom would buy a $40-60k Tesla (what they can afford), but either need the range (85) or desire the performance (P85) or even need AWD (85D/P85D). It would be great to see that option, but perhaps we need "more time" to see those cars reach a depreciation level that allows a proper discount. I'm not complaining because right now the residuals remain high, which helps all of us ... for now.
Not at the expense of resale value, no. I'm not a charity and I don't cherish the thought of my car being devalued simply so someone who wants to buy a less expensive EV can have one.
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davewill
Active Member
I went to the store to see what the cheapest option was (sadly still out of my range but maybe in another couple of years) and they showed me an S60 with Tech, and no other options at just over 20k miles with a 63K price tag. At least they're putting Supercharging on all the CPO cars. I have no doubt they will get some higher mileage cars in as the program goes on.
arijaycomet
Member
Totally agree, I want values to stay high. But that isn't going to last forever, and if the rumors/speculation are true about Tesla sending out cars to stores to have CPO inventory, that could really negatively kick down resale values for owners like us. But yeah, I don't WANT people to have cars if it HURTS me... that is correct.
FWIW, my experience is most heavily with Audi used cars. I've been known to buy 2-4 year old cars (off warranty, sometimes) that come with a CPO warranty. The cars are usually under 50k so they have some factory warranty left, and the cost to certify those cars is $2-4k depending on the model of the car. You get a 6-year 100k warranty (similar to what Tesla seems to be offering). Typically the CPO cars are just $2-4k more expensive than the equivalent private party or non-CPO equivalent.
With prices remaining high/steady my point/concern was that CPO cars might not be low enough to "make sense" -- i don't want them to drop, obviously, but it would seem like the timing isn't yet prime for CPO cars to be the "value" they eventually may become.
That is interesting. If the only option is really had was tech package, that car today would have a $75,320 price tag MSRP and would have autopilot. Chances are the car you're talking about doesn't have autopilot hardware, even if it DOES have Supercharging added. Your bio says you're in California, so a brand new car would earn you $10,000 in tax incentives. That makes a brand new car w/auto pilot $65,320 -- or only $2k more than the CPO. Spread over the term of the loan that isn't a huge difference. And you also probably can't lease the CPO can you? that would be interesting to know.
Thanks for sharing the example....
Fortunately, I think Tesla's CPO prices bode well for our resale values. People here are already complaining the prices are too high... I'm okay with that!
I known that I only posted one example but all of the cars they provided for me and at the time there weren't any 85's there was one 60 and five P85s the 60 was better priced as an inventory car than a CPO.
I agree that in some respects it would be good if the resale value at CPO was low so more people could get into a model S, but at this point I don't see how the CPO program is reasonable. Way inflated prices.
I agree that in some respects it would be good if the resale value at CPO was low so more people could get into a model S, but at this point I don't see how the CPO program is reasonable. Way inflated prices.
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
Honestly, I am somewhat surprised Tesla doesn't retrofit some of the more minor features (or not) and use these trade-ins as loaners. They could still do inventory cars for test drives, but make the trade-ins part of the loaner program. That said, they probably don't have the volume of trade-ins currently to do that to all the stores, and they may not have the necessity of that many trade-ins simultaneously to have such a program; but I am still surprised that the trade-ins are being CPO'd right now as opposed to finding other uses for them until more time has passed to make CPO Model S vehicles a bit more price-effective compared to buying new. Personally, while I am not opposed to a CPO, I personally am looking for an inventory car that, after the Federal rebate, would probably be the best value to me. I've seen some posters mention prices for their inventory cars and, after the rebate, does put the Model S in my budget.
Perhaps now the used resale prices will rise. Tesla is setting a bar here. Either Tesla's prices are inflated or folks selling privately are leaving money on the table. I tend to believe the latter. Of course private party won't get the same price as Tesla's CPO, but those of us with extended warranties and a car in excellent condition may get close. Some owners sold their cars for what I felt were extremely low prices... P85+ cars selling for under $80k. That's crazy. Then you have a guy in the TM forums telling people to list their cars for the prices shown on eBay - a distressed vehicle marketplace. Obviously he has an agenda and wants to buy a used Tesla for the lowest price. Others said that the tax credit needs to come off the top because, for some reason that I don't understand, we are obligated to pass that credit on to a subsequent buyer even though that credit was specific to the original titled owner as an incentive to take a chance with buying new technology. We original owners in Arizona also paid sales tax of almost 9% while subsequent buyers will not have to pay sales tax. My bill of sale shows $106,750, not $106,750 minus $7,500. My tax return is my business. So no, they should not get a $7,500 freebie.
And now we learn from Tesla's CPO pricing that they do not reduce the vehicle price by the amount of the tax credit. Hence people saying Tesla's CPO prices are too high. I rather think that others' prices are too low because they are volunteering discounts that nobody asked for.
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I think that given the delay from ordering a car to receiving one is several months, used cars in excellent condition are worth pretty close to full price minus the $7500 fed tax credit. This isn't uncommon - I remember buying a used Honda CR-V in 1999 and every used one on the market cost MORE than a brand new one because they were backlogged a bit.
My take on this is sooner or later used Model S prices will be inline with the cost of a used Mercedes S class. If for no other reason because sooner or later Mercedes will release an all electric S class. Currently a Model S is retaining about 71% of its resale value after 2 years and that's actually a great position to be in, especially comparing how the other EVs are doing with their resale value.
http://www.bidnessetc.com/35770-how...aintaining-high-resale-value-of-its-vehicles/
You could deride eBay all you want but it is the one verifiable open marketplace currently available where you can actually see how much people are willing pay for or sell a Model S. People who sell their Model S on eBay are presumably not dumb and if they could have gotten more elsewhere, they would have.
For those who think, they get to keep the $7,500 when selling their Model S, good luck with that
http://www.bidnessetc.com/35770-how...aintaining-high-resale-value-of-its-vehicles/
You could deride eBay all you want but it is the one verifiable open marketplace currently available where you can actually see how much people are willing pay for or sell a Model S. People who sell their Model S on eBay are presumably not dumb and if they could have gotten more elsewhere, they would have.
For those who think, they get to keep the $7,500 when selling their Model S, good luck with that
My take on this is sooner or later used Model S prices will be inline with the cost of a used Mercedes S class. If for no other reason because sooner or later Mercedes will release an all electric S class. Currently a Model S is retaining about 71% of its resale value after 2 years and that's actually a great position to be in, especially comparing how the other EVs are doing with their resale value.
http://www.bidnessetc.com/35770-how...aintaining-high-resale-value-of-its-vehicles/
You could deride eBay all you want but it is the one verifiable open marketplace currently available where you can actually see how much people are willing pay for or sell a Model S. People who sell their Model S on eBay are presumably not dumb and if they could have gotten more elsewhere, they would have.
For those who think, they get to keep the $7,500 when selling their Model S, good luck with that
The tax credit is not a subsequent buyer's concern any more than it's their business what deductions I take on my car. If it's okay to discount the car by the amount of the tax credit, then you should similarly discount your home resale by the amount of all the mortgage tax deductions that you've received over the years. If you get any other tax benefits on your car, for instance business use deduction, then you should pass that along to a buyer as well? Why is one okay and not the other? Where does it end?
And when Tesla cars no longer qualify for the tax credit, then what? Will all resale prices rise as a result?
Of course this is a moot point because you can only sell for what a buyer is willing to pay, and the used Tesla market is what it is. My only point is that if early owners had not been so quick to pass along this benefit that nobody really asked for, leaving money on the table, used prices might be a little bit higher today. But we can't go back in time. I am surprised that owners are advocating a position that is not in their interest.
