CPUC NEM 3.0 discussion

[RKCRLR]

There are no fixed charges for PG&E, everything is based on the kWh used.

Transmission and distribution are not impacted by TOU, but generation is. For baseline plans the credit for under baseline and charge for over baseline is dependent on the monthly consumption. This isn't explicitly tied to generation, transmission or distribution.

That's sort of my point. If everyone paid a fixed connection fee for everything that costs the utility the same independent of how much energy you used and paid variable fees for costs that vary with consumption then utility costs would be a lot more transparent.

 

[tfan2018]

That’s how San Jose Water Company is operating. Everyone is paying $80+ every 2 months as fixed costs and water usage is a much smaller component of the bill, yet everyone is using less water than ever before.

 

[Redhill_qik]

That's sort of my point. If everyone paid a fixed connection fee for everything that costs the utility the same independent of how much energy you used and paid variable fees for costs that vary with consumption then utility costs would be a lot more transparent.

I'm in favor of moving to a fixed charge based on the service type (100A vs 225A vs 400A) or one that is a look back to the highest hourly kWh import from the prior year, but this runs against economic and policy expert positions that it is a regressive cost that impacts lower income households unfairly.

To me, this is no different than typical cost models for water and sewer services.

 

[RKCRLR]

I'm in favor of moving to a fixed charge based on the service type (100A vs 225A vs 400A) or one that is a look back to the highest hourly kWh import from the prior year, but this runs against economic and policy expert positions that it is a regressive cost that impacts lower income households unfairly.

To me, this is no different than typical cost models for water and sewer services.

I agree but the complaint is that the current NEM system is regressive. With a fixed connection fee they could subsidize the connection cost for the lower income households but still have transparency. The actual energy charge would be lower but you would still have an incentive to conserve. And it would allow people who want to produce green energy to benefit and still pay their fair share of infrastructure support.

At the very least on the current bill they could state what percent of average you are paying for each charge. That would at least give you an idea of what the actual costs are.

 

[Zorg]

Being an IOU in CA is amazing. Regardless of how poorly they're managed, they're guaranteed to make money. Actually, the worse they're managed, the more they make. It's totally crazy. The disparity in prices between PG&E, SDG&E and others is crazy. Average cost per KWh is around $0.30-0.35 depending on one's overall usage. Truckee charges $0.15 a KWh all day every day. In 2014, my off peak rate was $0.14 a KWh, now the lowest is $0.28, so it doubled in 8 years!! That's about 10% inflation. We're the most expensive state and getting more so every year. Not sustainable.

 

[RKCRLR]

Being an IOU in CA is amazing. Regardless of how poorly they're managed, they're guaranteed to make money. Actually, the worse they're managed, the more they make. It's totally crazy. The disparity in prices between PG&E, SDG&E and others is crazy. Average cost per KWh is around $0.30-0.35 depending on one's overall usage. Truckee charges $0.15 a KWh all day every day. In 2014, my off peak rate was $0.14 a KWh, now the lowest is $0.28, so it doubled in 8 years!! That's about 10% inflation. We're the most expensive state and getting more so every year. Not sustainable.

I had thought that one of the rate problems with PG&E was they have the burden of supporting the infrastructure in sprawling rural, fire prone areas. But your Truckee example disputes that.

 

[Zorg]

I had thought that one of the rate problems with PG&E was they have the burden of supporting the infrastructure in sprawling rural, fire prone areas. But your Truckee example disputes that.

Truckee sources its electricity from Nevada. Our CA IOUs have a super bloated cost structure and we're all paying for it.

 

[RKCRLR]

Truckee sources its electricity from Nevada. Our CA IOUs have a super bloated cost structure and we're all paying for it.

I also suspect Nevada doesn't have as aggressive requirements for green energy as California does.

 

[aesculus]

I also suspect Nevada doesn't have as aggressive requirements for green energy as California does.

North Valmy Generating Station - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Zorg]

I also suspect Nevada doesn't have as aggressive requirements for green energy as California does.

I don't know.

NV Energy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Big Dog]

Our CA IOUs have a super bloated cost structure and we're all paying for it.

Correct. Besides proving energy, the IOUs are a jobs program -- good paying jobs with good benefits. Cutting the IOUs budgets means cutting jobs, not something the politicos want to do. There is literally zero financial reason to become more efficient.

 

[Zorg]

Correct. Besides proving energy, the IOUs are a jobs program -- good paying jobs with good benefits. Cutting the IOUs budgets means cutting jobs, not something the politicos want to do. There is literally zero financial reason to become more efficient.

Union jobs to boot, which I'm guessing are contributing to our current elected officials campaigns. Campaign financing is the root of many of our problems (and true across the political spectrum, not picking on just one side).

 

[Vines]

Union jobs to boot, which I'm guessing are contributing to our current elected officials campaigns. Campaign financing is the root of many of our problems (and true across the political spectrum, not picking on just one side).

The only way to fix our "Buy the law" system is to reform campaign finance and get people in politics with similar morality to an elementary school teacher.:
They would do the job, even underpaid because they love it and it is the right thing to do.

Also, everyone from judges and upward cannot buy individual stocks. They can buy mutual funds and similar investments only with a 30day delay period.

 

[Zorg]

The only way to fix our "Buy the law" system is to reform campaign finance and get people in politics with similar morality to an elementary school teacher.:
They would do the job, even underpaid because they love it and it is the right thing to do.

Also, everyone from judges and upward cannot buy individual stocks. They can buy mutual funds and similar investments only with a 30day delay period.

I've given up on the morality aspect. I know we're straying far from initial discussion, though it's tangentially related, but my take is that the only solution would be a much lower cap on campaign spending in the form of a set amount of $ per electors. The current election spending is forcing all politicians to spend their time begging for money. It's not healthy for our democracy IMHO. Obviously, it doesn't matter since it won't happen, so we'll be stuck with what we got.

 

[Vines]

I've given up on the morality aspect. I know we're straying far from initial discussion, though it's tangentially related, but my take is that the only solution would be a much lower cap on campaign spending in the form of a set amount of $ per electors. The current election spending is forcing all politicians to spend their time begging for money. It's not healthy for our democracy IMHO. Obviously, it doesn't matter since it won't happen, so we'll be stuck with what we got.

Agreed, I am getting way OT there but I couldn't help myself.

The truth is that we have control over it, but are mostly too comfortable to change things.

 

[swedge]

Sorry, I forgot to include CPUC's chart. Page 12 of the White Paper. It shows how expensive it is for utilities to maintaining and run generation and distribution capacity to serve only a few hours a day. In fact it is far worse than this chart of daily average because the actual peak grid load occurs only once a year during summer when air conditioning use is at its maximum. Utilities have to own and maintain enough capacity to supply that peak, even though it is used only a few hours per year. What a terrible ROI.

I find it ironic that the complaint about renewables was their "intermittency", working only when the wind blows or the sun shines. Utilities have generators they only use a few hour a year, as well as nuclear plants which go "Fuku" if shut down too fast.

 

[swedge]

It shouldn't be Tesla's responsibility...

I agree. To take it a step farther, I think our congress should alter the IRS rule to give batteries an income tax credit whether a part of a solar installation or not. But if we think getting Tesla to change it's policy is hard, the IRS is a whole other kettle of electrons. ;-)

In the meant time, your question should go to a tax accountant. In my case, with one PowerWall added to a preexisting solar, we took ITC on the solar but did not take it on the battery. In my talks with Tesla, I sent a copy of my IRS form for the PowerWall year which shows roll over from the solar but no additional claim that year. Tesla understood that. IRS too.

My speculation on your case goes like this: Taxation is mostly an honor system, so you might just file for the third PW and be sure to keep records of your charging for the unlikely case that you were audited. IRS has no other way to see what charged what, as your PowerWalls doesn't send in 1099's or any such. Worst case would be that IRS eventually disallows your ITC, in which case you'd be no worse off than if you hadn't claimed it. But talk to an expert and be sure to ask about the worst case.

An example of this issue is Storm Watch. In this Energy Department Homeowners Guide, it says that "Energy storage devices that are charged exclusively by the associated solar PV panels..." can be included in ITC claims. Key word here is "exclusively". Storm Watch violates this. But Tesla seems to think that is OK, and we've heard of no contests from IRS. My point is that IRS is is not being hard edged on this. Good faith effort to comply may be enough.

I wonder what Enphase and LG have to say about this, given that their systems do allow grid charging.

SW

 

[Big Dog]

Union jobs to boot, which I'm guessing are contributing to our current elected officials campaigns. Campaign financing is the root of many of our problems (and true across the political spectrum, not picking on just one side).

Be careful Zorg. I posted the political donation numbers awhile ago and the Mods moved it.

 

[Zorg]

Be careful Zorg. I posted the political donation numbers awhile ago and the Mods moved it.

Seems like would be relevant to the discussion. Oh well.

 

[holeydonut]

Times article about grid defection in NorCal.

Frustrated With Utilities, Some Californians Are Leaving the Grid

Citing more blackouts, wildfires and higher electricity rates, a growing number of homeowners are choosing to build homes that run entirely on solar panels and batteries.

www.nytimes.com

Unfortunately the examples they give include rich Tech executives which adds fuel to the class warfare issue.