CPUC NEM 3.0 discussion

[aesculus]

I'll have to look at his earlier one.
I lived in Belmont for >20 years. Perfect climate for heat pump. It never freezes and rarely gets below 40. Where I live now it does not get into the 30s much, but when it does, the heat pump is not good

And even worse when it's foggy so the units ice up even more.

That was certainly the case with my older heat pump that finally went belly up. My new high end variable speed unit does not seem to be as affected as much by this or deals with it better. It seems to defrost quicker and for less time. This year though was not the worst case scenario to test all that out on so the jury may still be out.

 

[wwu123]

I have a Carrier Infinity dual fuel (propane) heat pump. I have currently my furnace locked out until it gets below 35F. When I built my home in 2009 I wanted the flexibility of being able to select the most economical fuel since electricity rates and propane prices were fluctuating, I wanted the comfort of gas heat, and I wanted to have heat during a power outage. I would set the crossover point of when it switched to gas depending on which was more price effective at the given COP. I subsequently installed enough solar to become a net generator. The gas switchover point is now one of the things I take into consideration to just barely be a net producer since electricity is more economical as long as I'm a net producer. I now mainly use the furnace during a power outage, during the defrost cycle, and to recover from a large setback temperature when it is cold.

Say, do you know which model for your Carrier Infinity furnace and for your heat pump you have from 2009? My Carrier Infinity furnace is from 2010, similar lineage, it would be nice to know which heat pump models were well-matched at the time, even though none of those models are currently made (esp the heat pump since I think the refrigerant types have changed).

EDIT: Switchover by price effectiveness makes sense. I'm often right at the edge of Tier 2 for both gas and electric in the winter months, though Tier 2 for gas jumps like 30%, while Tier 2 for electricity in winter is <10% jump. If there's a couple of cold spells within a few weeks, I could see where it might tip me towards switching to another fuel for a few days til the next period, were I to get one (and the way PG&E carves up the monthly baseline, each billing month has TWO sub-periods of about 10-20 days where they try to get you for going into Tier 2.

 

[RKCRLR]

Say, do you know which model for your Carrier Infinity furnace and for your heat pump you have from 2009? My Carrier Infinity furnace is from 2010, similar lineage, it would be nice to know which heat pump models were well-matched at the time, even though none of those models are currently made (esp the heat pump since I think the refrigerant types have changed).

EDIT: Switchover by price effectiveness makes sense. I'm often right at the edge of Tier 2 for both gas and electric in the winter months, though Tier 2 for gas jumps like 30%, while Tier 2 for electricity in winter is <10% jump. If there's a couple of cold spells within a few weeks, I could see where it might tip me towards switching to another fuel for a few days til the next period, were I to get one (and the way PG&E carves up the monthly baseline, each billing month has TWO sub-periods of about 10-20 days where they try to get you for going into Tier 2.

I have a 5 ton 25HNA660A 2 stage heat pump and 58CVX110-20 2 stage variable speed furnace. The Bristol TS compressor in my heat pump is infamous for having problems and mine may be acting up. I was hoping to replace the outside unit with one that has a variable speed inverter compressor if it goes out but it doesn't appear it would be compatible with my furnace.

At todays rates it probably wouldn't be cost effective to go dual fuel because of the additional cost of the furnace. But given what they are considering doing for NEM 3 that may change. And it is nice to have the ability to run the furnace off the Powerwalls and/or small generator in the winter if you have frequent power outages.

 

[wwu123]

I have a 5 ton 25HNA660A 2 stage heat pump and 58CVX110-20 2 stage variable speed furnace. The Bristol TS compressor in my heat pump is infamous for having problems and mine may be acting up. I was hoping to replace the outside unit with one that has a variable speed inverter compressor if it goes out but it doesn't appear it would be compatible with my furnace.

At todays rates it probably wouldn't be cost effective to go dual fuel because of the additional cost of the furnace. But given what they are considering doing for NEM 3 that may change. And it is nice to have the ability to run the furnace off the Powerwalls and/or small generator in the winter if you have frequent power outages.

Thanks for that info! My furnace is the 58MVC (080 size), one step down from 58CVX, but I think same ECM motor, just programmed for 3-speed rather than variable-speed. I think that didn't matter for heating since there are only 2-3 heat stages, but maybe variable speed more relevant when used as the blower for A/C to balance temp and humidity.

When you say inverter compressor would be incompatible, probably you are referring to the proprietary Infinity thermostat controller, or the proprietary controller than many inverter heat pumps have. You might want to look into the Bosch BOVA, that I'm looking into. Inverter heat pumps often have proprietary thermostats since they want to run continuously but modulate their speed; the Bosch is supposed to be compatible with third-party thermostats and blowers. It does it by modulating based on measuring the amount of suction, or load, to determine how hard the heat pump is working, or something like that. You'd have to replace the Infinity thermostat, but I'm pretty your furnace like mine can be configured with DIP switches to be a perfectly functional 2 speed furnace with your choice of thermostat.

The Bosch compressor supposedly has a Mitsubishi inverter unit inside, the gold standard, and a 10-speed ECM compressor motor, to achieve 20+ SEER. My problem is just finding an HVAC company that will even quote Bosch when it's heavily backordered.

 

[RKCRLR]

Thanks for that info! My furnace is the 58MVC (080 size), one step down from 58CVX, but I think same ECM motor, just programmed for 3-speed rather than variable-speed. I think that didn't matter for heating since there are only 2-3 heat stages, but maybe variable speed more relevant when used as the blower for A/C to balance temp and humidity.

When you say inverter compressor would be incompatible, probably you are referring to the proprietary Infinity thermostat controller, or the proprietary controller than many inverter heat pumps have. You might want to look into the Bosch BOVA, that I'm looking into. Inverter heat pumps often have proprietary thermostats since they want to run continuously but modulate their speed; the Bosch is supposed to be compatible with third-party thermostats and blowers. It does it by modulating based on measuring the amount of suction, or load, to determine how hard the heat pump is working, or something like that. You'd have to replace the Infinity thermostat, but I'm pretty your furnace like mine can be configured with DIP switches to be a perfectly functional 2 speed furnace with your choice of thermostat.

The Bosch compressor supposedly has a Mitsubishi inverter unit inside, the gold standard, and a 10-speed ECM compressor motor, to achieve 20+ SEER. My problem is just finding an HVAC company that will even quote Bosch when it's heavily backordered.

I have the Infinity thermostat that communicates with air handler controller board (which is part of the furnace) in a Carrier proprietary format. The air handler controller board then communicates with the outside unit controller board and the zoning system controller board in the proprietary format. So, unless I want to replace my Carrier thermostat and the associated hardware, I either need an outside unit that is compatible with my furnace or replace both the furnace and outside unit.

 

[wwu123]

I have the Infinity thermostat that communicates with air handler controller board (which is part of the furnace) in a Carrier proprietary format. The air handler controller board then communicates with the outside unit controller board and the zoning system controller board in the proprietary format. So, unless I want to replace my Carrier thermostat and the associated hardware, I either need an outside unit that is compatible with my furnace or replace both the furnace and outside unit.

Yeah, I have the Infinity thermostat too, both the monochrome one and the color wi-fi one as well - both sit in a box somewhere now. 99% sure your controller board, like mine, has both the proprietary 4-wire connector point, as well as the standard 7-wire connector points. As long as your thermostat wiring had enough wires, you can configure two-stage heat and cool, humidifier, aux, with any third-party thermostat, to your Infinity furnace and any A/C or heat pump. But either an HVAC pro needs to configure or you need to be comfortable with 24v low-voltage DIY. DIP switches would be used to match the low/high stage air volume to size/spec of the heat pump installed.

Of course you lose a few nifty Infinity features - self-test static pressure and blower adjustment (but I keep my filters clean and my static pressure never varied in two years), some humidity tuning for A/C mode (not relevant for me yet since I don't have A/C), any third or higher staging/speeds (mine runs 90% in low anyways), etc.

 

[RKCRLR]

Yeah, I have the Infinity thermostat too, both the monochrome one and the color wi-fi one as well - both sit in a box somewhere now. 99% sure your controller board, like mine, has both the proprietary 4-wire connector point, as well as the standard 7-wire connector points. As long as your thermostat wiring had enough wires, you can configure two-stage heat and cool, humidifier, aux, with any third-party thermostat, to your Infinity furnace and any A/C or heat pump. But either an HVAC pro needs to configure or you need to be comfortable with 24v low-voltage DIY. DIP switches would be used to match the low/high stage air volume to size/spec of the heat pump installed.

Of course you lose a few nifty Infinity features - self-test static pressure and blower adjustment (but I keep my filters clean and my static pressure never varied in two years), some humidity tuning for A/C mode (not relevant for me yet since I don't have A/C), any third or higher staging/speeds (mine runs 90% in low anyways), etc.

I have 3 thermostats for the 3 zones with 4 wire wiring run inside the walls. It would be quite a hassle to change to a 7 wire system. One of my challenges with sticking with a 2 stage system is low stage needs to remain at 50% (or lower) of high stage due to the size of one of the zones. One of the main advantages of an inverter system is the ability to vary the output according to demand.

The Infinity system logic makes better use of the duel fuel capability than what I've seen from the 3rd party thermostats.

 

[wwu123]

I have 3 thermostats for the 3 zones with 4 wire wiring run inside the walls. It would be quite a hassle to change to a 7 wire system. One of my challenges with sticking with a 2 stage system is low stage needs to remain at 50% (or lower) of high stage due to the size of one of the zones. One of the main advantages of an inverter system is the ability to vary the output according to demand.

The Infinity system logic makes better use of the duel fuel capability than what I've seen from the 3rd party thermostats.

Gotcha, yes, if they only ran 4 wire, that would certainly be a challenge. I ran Cat5e everywhere when the walls were down to studs for remodeling, so used the 8 low-voltage for main thermostat and for additional thermotat when I added zoning later. Anyways hope your compressor issue is repairable.

But I do know my 3-stage Infinity, I could manually configure furnace for two-stage thermostat using Low-High, Low-Mediium, or Med-High, and low stage is 30% of high - same concern with my zoning sizes. The Bosch heat pump is supposed to be able to continuously modulate, not using external temperature sensors, but reading its own suction pressure or something, so needs only one stage....

 

[getakey]

While all those low income people get stuck with higher bills and all of us "wealthy" people get solar, the PG&E CEO gets $50 million in compensation

PG&E’s top boss harvests total exec pay that tops $50 million

PG&E’s CEO harvested a total pay package that topped $50 million in 2021 at a time when the besieged utility remained under scrutiny for a decade of disasters linked to deadly wildfires a…

www.siliconvalley.com

 

[Merrill]

This is disgusting, that is part of the reason we have the highest electricity bills in the country. Where else would you be rewarded for doing a poor job!

 

[holeydonut]

While all those low income people get stuck with higher bills and all of us "wealthy" people get solar, the PG&E CEO gets $50 million in compensation

PG&E’s top boss harvests total exec pay that tops $50 million

PG&E’s CEO harvested a total pay package that topped $50 million in 2021 at a time when the besieged utility remained under scrutiny for a decade of disasters linked to deadly wildfires a…

www.siliconvalley.com

It gets better (or worse?); if you look at the aerial view of her home in Lafayette, CA, she has a massive ground-mount solar array and a massive pool heater array. Edit... it's only 72 panels. I think h2ofun's array is still bigger.

So while she supports all those efforts to make solar basically unobtainable by average middle class homeowners in the future; she is more than happy living in a $5 million baller spot near @bmah and having NEM.

At least that Berkeley prof that dislikes solar... himself doesn't have solar.

Dr. Faruqui who is is against the proposed fixed cost charge in the proposed NEM 3.0 doesn't have solar either.

 

[miimura]

While all those low income people get stuck with higher bills and all of us "wealthy" people get solar, the PG&E CEO gets $50 million in compensation

PG&E’s top boss harvests total exec pay that tops $50 million

PG&E’s CEO harvested a total pay package that topped $50 million in 2021 at a time when the besieged utility remained under scrutiny for a decade of disasters linked to deadly wildfires a…

www.siliconvalley.com

This is the perfect place for me to suggest my latest scheme for bringing PG&E back in line with rate payers.

1. Cap salaries for all executives at $250k. Excess compensation must be stock grants or stock options.
2. All projects that are chargeable against rates must be approved by CPUC with multiple bids. CPUC reserves the right to reject any project that has costs out of line with its usefulness or it is bid by entities related to the utility only.
3. Cost overruns are borne by the shareholders and not by ratepayers. Projects that come in under cost go to shareholders. See #2 above to avoid utility systematically padding costs.
4. Liabilities such as legal settlements due to negligence are borne entirely by shareholders. Bankruptcies must pay lenders before shareholders. Bankruptcy that destroys shareholder value also hurts executives due to stock based compensation.

 

[Merrill]

This must of been a dream you had last night.

 

[holeydonut]

Wait… so they’re paying h2ofun even more money???

https://amp.sacbee.com/news/california/article260210070.html

 

[Merrill]

A big 40$

 

[MJ_CA_2019]

A big 40$

This "Credit" makes zero sense to me.

 

[STS-134]

This "Credit" makes zero sense to me.

Do you remember when people were complaining that the difference between the top tier (I think it used to be either Tier 3 or Tier 4) and the lowest tier, on the E-1 plan, back when that was what most people were on, was too high? And PG&E did away with the top tier, replaced it with a high usage surcharge, and also created the ETOU-B plan? Well guess what? If you think about it, this crap is back, but it's much more devious this time around. Instead of charging people who use more electricity a higher rate per kWh explicitly, they've decided to do it in a much more sneaky way. Someone who uses fewer kWh over the term gets a higher rebate per kWh than someone who uses more. And a lot of people forget about the "climate credit" and only think about the published rates. Everyone (particularly people who own EVs) should complain about this. Basically, subtract 3930¢/(your total kWh usage over 6 months) from the published rates. If you used only 393 kWh, you get a whopping 10¢/kWh discount. If you used 3930 kWh, you only get a 1¢/kWh discount. This heavily benefits people who draw very little power over the month for whatever reason, and I wonder if the meters for those AT&T U-verse boxes on street corners get the full $39.30 credit every 6 months. Also, consider a customer who for some reason manages to only use about 40 kWh/month, barely paying more than the minimum delivery charge of $10.12 monthly. Guess what? He gets almost his entire bill back as a climate credit!

 

[holeydonut]

Do you remember when people were complaining that the difference between the top tier (I think it used to be either Tier 3 or Tier 4) and the lowest tier, on the E-1 plan, back when that was what most people were on, was too high? And PG&E did away with the top tier, replaced it with a high usage surcharge, and also created the ETOU-B plan? Well guess what? If you think about it, this crap is back, but it's much more devious this time around. Instead of charging people who use more electricity a higher rate per kWh explicitly, they've decided to do it in a much more sneaky way. Someone who uses fewer kWh over the term gets a higher rebate per kWh than someone who uses more. And a lot of people forget about the "climate credit" and only think about the published rates. Everyone (particularly people who own EVs) should complain about this. Basically, subtract 3930¢/(your total kWh usage over 6 months) from the published rates. If you used only 393 kWh, you get a whopping 10¢/kWh discount. If you used 3930 kWh, you only get a 1¢/kWh discount. This heavily benefits people who draw very little power over the month for whatever reason, and I wonder if the meters for those AT&T U-verse boxes on street corners get the full $39.30 credit every 6 months. Also, consider a customer who for some reason manages to only use about 40 kWh/month, barely paying more than the minimum delivery charge of $10.12 monthly. Guess what? He gets almost his entire bill back as a climate credit!

And someone like h2ofun who is a net generator is getting like an infinity return since his denominator of net usage is zero lolol…

Im sure the IOU backers are saying he either shouldn’t get the $40 and he’s definitely not paying his fair share.

 

[Merrill]

It is all bs, PG&E want you to think they care about the climate it is just another marketing scheme.

 

[getakey]

PG&E is really hurting due to us Solar people

The utility, whose headquarters are now in downtown Oakland, harvested $475 million in profits on $5.8 billion in revenue for the quarter ended in March.

PG&E’s first-quarter profits were nearly triple the $120 million the utility earned in the same quarter a year ago. Revenue increased 22.9% from the year before.

The average monthly bill charge from PG&E for residential electricity and gas service is now 14% higher for the typical customer than it was at the end of 2021.

PG&E has increased what it charges per month twice so far in 2022, with the first jump in January and the second in March. The state Public Utilities Commission authorized the rate proceedings that underpinned both increases in monthly bills.

PG&E revenue, profits soar after utility charges more on monthly bills

PG&E reported on Thursday a big increase in profits and revenue during its January-through-March first quarter, a three-month period that coincided with two hefty increases in what the utility …

www.mercurynews.com