CPUC NEM 3.0 discussion

[sunwarriors]

otherwise PG&E will just shift the costs until they get what they want.

This is why I think having batteries gives you a further buffer. That's at least partly why I went with batteries. That comfort that I can't be screwed over "as easily" hopefully.

Without energy storage, you're really at the whims of the IOUs and they can charge whatever they want when the sun isn't shining and all the solar only people can't do a thing about it.

 

[h2ofun]

This is why I think having batteries gives you a further buffer. That's at least partly why I went with batteries. That comfort that I can't be screwed over "as easily" hopefully.

Without energy storage, you're really at the whims of the IOUs and they can charge whatever they want when the sun isn't shining and all the solar only people can't do a thing about it.

Unless they can start charging what we use behind our meters

 

[wwu123]

Something is weird here. Their usage for July actually went down year to year (85kWh > 80 kWh) but their costs seemed to almost double (~$600 > $1125). No wonder they are pissed. If they are on a TOU plan then they need to seriously consider adjusting their consumption habits to reflect pricing where possible (ie washing clothes, setbacks on heating/cooling, turning off or changing light bulb types). They could also be on the wrong plan for their lifestyle too (maybe they have an EV but don't have an EV plan?).

Solar would only help these people if most of their consumption is during daylight hours I am afraid, otherwise PG&E will just shift the costs until they get what they want.

Very odd - High Usage charge suggests they are still on E-1, I don't believe any of the TOU rate plans have that tier, do they? But from limited history I have on E-1, I think the High Usage tier hasn't really increased in the last three years, only the normal tiers went up dramatically. And even if they got moved to E-TOU-C, the peak rate of $0.48 is still less than the E-1 high usage tier of $0.49...

Did their baseline quantity get squeezed somehow? But I don't think PG&E is allowed to change baselines that frequently, last I remember was they squeezed the gas baselines a couple of years ago...

EDIT: Weird, it seems the High Usage tier was higher three years ago, went down for a while, and then back up in the last year - so it has been moving, not flat. Anyways, changes on the order of 20% not 2X to explain the doubling...

 

[aesculus]

EDIT: Weird, it seems the High Usage tier was higher three years ago, went down for a while, and then back up in the last year - so it has been moving, not flat. Anyways, changes on the order of 20% not 2X to explain the doubling...

I wonder if they switched from a tiered plan to a TOU and that might be the cause. Maybe the penalties for being an power abuser have gone up too.

 

[wwu123]

I wonder if they switched from a tiered plan to a TOU and that might be the cause. Maybe the penalties for being an power abuser have gone up too.

Except the "High Usage" explicitly printed on their bill I believe is a specifically-labeled tier on E-1 and no other, not some descriptive phrasing for any surcharges or penalties for over-use....

Or is it?....

 

[Redhill_qik]

Very odd - High Usage charge suggests they are still on E-1, I don't believe any of the TOU rate plans have that tier, do they? But from limited history I have on E-1, I think the High Usage tier hasn't really increased in the last three years, only the normal tiers went up dramatically. And even if they got moved to E-TOU-C, the peak rate of $0.48 is still less than the E-1 high usage tier of $0.49...

Did their baseline quantity get squeezed somehow? But I don't think PG&E is allowed to change baselines that frequently, last I remember was they squeezed the gas baselines a couple of years ago...

EDIT: Weird, it seems the High Usage tier was higher three years ago, went down for a while, and then back up in the last year - so it has been moving, not flat. Anyways, changes on the order of 20% not 2X to explain the doubling...

I looked at the numbers for E-1 and my calculation is close, but not exact which is weird.

• 80.23 kWh/day * 31 days = 2487.13 kWh
• 9.8 kWh/day = 303.8 kWh/month baseline (@holeydonut neighbor should be territory X)
• $95.75 Baseline ($0.31516 * 303.8)
• $359.71 101-400% ($0.39468 * 303.8 * 3)
• $627.51 High Usage >400% ($0.49335 * (2497.13 - 303.8 *4))
• $1082.97 vs $1048.80 on the bill ($34.17 difference)

Baseline amounts don't change often, but they did drop from last year to this year. Last year Territory X was 10.3 kWh/day in the summer and is now 9.8 kWh/day.

 

[holeydonut]

I looked at the numbers for E-1 and my calculation is close, but not exact which is weird.

• 80.23 kWh/day * 31 days = 2487.13 kWh
• 9.8 kWh/day = 303.8 kWh/month baseline (@holeydonut neighbor should be territory X)
• $95.75 Baseline ($0.31516 * 303.8)
• $359.71 101-400% ($0.39468 * 303.8 * 3)
• $627.51 High Usage >400% ($0.49335 * (2497.13 - 303.8 *4))
• $1082.97 vs $1048.80 on the bill ($34.17 difference)

Baseline amounts don't change often, but they did drop from last year to this year. Last year Territory X was 10.3 kWh/day in the summer and is now 9.8 kWh/day.

I thought people were all transitioned to TOU rates already?

 

[Redhill_qik]

I thought people were all transitioned to TOU rates already?

E-1 is still around for some customers. I was helping our neighbor last weekend with an internet issue they were having and they asked about how solar was working for me as they just had a $600 bill (actually it was around $525 with $75 in gas charges) and when I was looking over their blue bill I noticed that they were still on E-1. IIRC their usage was 850 kWh which is high for a modern single story 2200 sqft house, but not astronomical.

Edit: If you are on Medical Baseline then you will not be transitioned to a TOU plan.

 

[Zabe]

E-1 is still around for some customers. I was helping our neighbor last weekend with an internet issue they were having and they asked about how solar was working for me as they just had a $600 bill (actually it was around $525 with $75 in gas charges) and when I was looking over their blue bill I noticed that they were still on E-1. IIRC their usage was 850 kWh which is high for a modern single story 2200 sqft house, but not astronomical.

Based on your math for the high usage customer this bill for 850kWh would be about $311 not $525?

 

[Redhill_qik]

Based on your math for the high usage customer this bill for 850kWh would be about $311 not $525?

I think that I got the 850 kWh number wrong and it must have been higher. There was also a Medical Baseline and CCA involved and I only had a quick glance as I was wrapping up the internet issue.

 

[holeydonut]

I looked at the numbers for E-1 and my calculation is close, but not exact which is weird.

• 80.23 kWh/day * 31 days = 2487.13 kWh
• 9.8 kWh/day = 303.8 kWh/month baseline (@holeydonut neighbor should be territory X)
• $95.75 Baseline ($0.31516 * 303.8)
• $359.71 101-400% ($0.39468 * 303.8 * 3)
• $627.51 High Usage >400% ($0.49335 * (2497.13 - 303.8 *4))
• $1082.97 vs $1048.80 on the bill ($34.17 difference)

Baseline amounts don't change often, but they did drop from last year to this year. Last year Territory X was 10.3 kWh/day in the summer and is now 9.8 kWh/day.

BTW, if you assume 32 days in the billing cycle instead of 31 you do get closer to the $1,048.80 (I think? like I said before, I am dumbs you have lots of maths i in your message).

I don't actually know if everyone's billing cycles are the same, but here's my latest PG&E bill dates.

 

[Redhill_qik]

BTW, if you assume 32 days in the billing cycle instead of 31 you do get closer to the $1,048.80 (I think? like I said before, I am dumbs you have lots of maths i in your message).

I don't actually know if everyone's billing cycles are the same, but here's my latest PG&E bill dates.
View attachment 840226

In this case the last bill was on 6/23/22, so this cycle was 6/24/22 through 7/24 which is 31 days. If it was 32 days then the total kWh would increase by 80.23 and the baseline would only increase by 9.8, so it actually gets worse ($1,117.89).

I overrode the excel formula and switched to 30 days and the total comes out to $1048.03!?!?! But there are 31 days, 6/24, 6/25, 6/26, 6/27, 6/28, 6/29, 6/30 (7 days) then 7/1-7/24 (24 days) = 31 days?? Could the PG&E billing designer be so stupid as to have just used total kWh/30 for the Daily Usage Comparison section? Nope, the X-axis date labels on the stacked bar graph are bogus.

I went back to look at some old pre-solar bills to check the 30 day guess and here is what I found:

Bar Graph Label​	Actual Billing Period End Date​
7/30​	7/23​
8/31​	8/24​
9/30​	9/23​
10/30​	10/25​

So, it isn't just the B&W bills that are confusing.

 

[getakey]

IMHO, This household is using a massive amount of electricity at 80.23 kWh/day or 2,407 kWh for the month. Pre-solar my peak was 9,100 kWh for the year or 25.0 kWh for day for a 3,500 sqft two story house. They need an energy audit first to understand their usage and the impact on their rate (tier vs TOU) plan to stop the bleeding and then solar long term.

South SF is way different summer temps than far east bay. I'm in East Sac and on 100+ degree days I can use 80 kWh with ACs set at 79 degrees. Even turn them off as soon as outside temp gets below 80 and turn on house fan
4000 sq ft house. One new 16 SEER AC and one older, but new evaporator installed 2 years ago
Mostly at 40 to 60 kWh/day in summer.

 

[charlesj]

Then the question for that bill owner, how much he can generate in a day that his roof panels can accommodate.

 

[getakey]

Then the question for that bill owner, how much he can generate in a day that his roof panels can accommodate.

He can probably generate that much or close to it depending on his roof config. I have 4000 sq ft house, but foot print of 2000 sq ft because I'm 2 story. Actually 2.3 story so less than 2000. I have 11.8 kW capacity, but not in ideal config. More than half is East, the rest is west. I'm generating close to 70 kWh every day this month

 

[charlesj]

He can probably generate that much or close to it depending on his roof config. I have 4000 sq ft house, but foot print of 2000 sq ft because I'm 2 story. Actually 2.3 story so less than 2000. I have 11.8 kW capacity, but not in ideal config. More than half is East, the rest is west. I'm generating close to 70 kWh every day this month

Keep forgetting that my possible 3.8kW system can generate 24kWh now on a sunny day.

 

[holeydonut]

Good news ya'll, the CPUC is going to extend the NEM 3.0 statutory deadline out to August 2023. The following is currently being proposed, but expect it to get signed soon.

Alice Reynolds is the assigned Commissioner and Kelly A. Hymes is the assigned Administrative Law Judge and the presiding officer in this proceeding Findings of Fact

1. The current statutory deadline for resolving Rulemaking 20-08-020 is August 27, 2022.
2. Rulemaking 20-08-020 cannot be completed by August 27, 2022.
3. An extension of the statutory deadline until August 27, 2023 is necessary to allow adequate time to complete this proceeding.

Conclusion of Law Pursuant to the authority granted to the Commission under Pub. Util. Code § 1701.5(a), the statutory deadline should be extended to August 27, 2023. IT IS ORDERED that the statutory deadline for completion of this proceeding is extended until August 27, 2023. This order is effective today.

-- -------------------------------------

There is a chance they complete their rulemaking ahead of this new deadline... so it's not like August 27, 2023 becomes some new finish line. But when has the CPUC ever operated significantly ahead of plan and finished ahead of schedule? Never. Heck at this point they may keep Diablo Canyon open longer since... there doesn't seem to be a working solution to cover its base load MW capacity. Funny stuff.

Remember when a Senior Director of Planning at PG&E said planning the MW capacity to offset Diablo Canyon was a losing strategy? Pepperidge Farms Remembers. Pepperidge Farms also remembers that there's no effing way NEM 3.0 is going in effect within the next 12 months.

So if you know anyone on the fence about solar, Biden just handed them more money to get solar, and California just handed them more time to get solar. Tell them to stop dragging their feet and get their azz in gear.

Edit: @Redhill_qik, if PG&E gets a forgivable loan to continue Diablo Canyon, what happens to all those Diablo Canyon Decommissioning NBCs we've been paying?

 

[BGbreeder]

Diablo Canyon can't run forever. At some point it will be decommissioned, or cleaned up after an earthquake, so no worries your nice NBCs will get used.

Diablo Canyon happens to be a contender for the US version of Fukushima in my book, and I hope that Diablo Canyon's backup generators have been earthquake reinforced and raised- but I doubt it.

 

[Redhill_qik]

Diablo Canyon can't run forever. At some point it will be decommissioned, or cleaned up after an earthquake, so no worries your nice NBCs will get used.

Diablo Canyon happens to be a contender for the US version of Fukushima in my book, and I hope that Diablo Canyon's backup generators have been earthquake reinforced and raised- but I doubt it.

Fun fact of the day. The current Nuclear Decommissioning component is negative, so it reduces your NBC charges by -$0.00013/kWh.

 

[HardHitter]

Good news ya'll, the CPUC is going to extend the NEM 3.0 statutory deadline out to August 2023. The following is currently being proposed, but expect it to get signed soon.

Alice Reynolds is the assigned Commissioner and Kelly A. Hymes is the assigned Administrative Law Judge and the presiding officer in this proceeding Findings of Fact

1. The current statutory deadline for resolving Rulemaking 20-08-020 is August 27, 2022.
2. Rulemaking 20-08-020 cannot be completed by August 27, 2022.
3. An extension of the statutory deadline until August 27, 2023 is necessary to allow adequate time to complete this proceeding.

Conclusion of Law Pursuant to the authority granted to the Commission under Pub. Util. Code § 1701.5(a), the statutory deadline should be extended to August 27, 2023. IT IS ORDERED that the statutory deadline for completion of this proceeding is extended until August 27, 2023. This order is effective today.

-- -------------------------------------

There is a chance they complete their rulemaking ahead of this new deadline... so it's not like August 27, 2023 becomes some new finish line. But when has the CPUC ever operated significantly ahead of plan and finished ahead of schedule? Never. Heck at this point they may keep Diablo Canyon open longer since... there doesn't seem to be a working solution to cover its base load MW capacity. Funny stuff.

Remember when a Senior Director of Planning at PG&E said planning the MW capacity to offset Diablo Canyon was a losing strategy? Pepperidge Farms Remembers. Pepperidge Farms also remembers that there's no effing way NEM 3.0 is going in effect within the next 12 months.

So if you know anyone on the fence about solar, Biden just handed them more money to get solar, and California just handed them more time to get solar. Tell them to stop dragging their feet and get their azz in gear.

Edit: @Redhill_qik, if PG&E gets a forgivable loan to continue Diablo Canyon, what happens to all those Diablo Canyon Decommissioning NBCs we've been paying?

This is a sigh of relief if true. I had moved into a new house last year and started the solar process right away. I ended up not moving forward because I had no idea what my usage was going to be in the new house so I deferred doing solar until a few months ago. I was stressing out because I committed to the process in early July knowing that I needed to race to get it done in 2022 (26% tax credit reducing to 22%) and before any NEM 3.0 came into play.

Now those nerves have calmed and its actually got better with 30% tax credit and NEM 3.0 worries settled. Can't wait for my system now! (12kW + 2 powerwalls)