CR full test of Model 3 - falls short on recommendation

[cybergates]

Its all in the code...hopefully Tesla is paying their software engineers well!!

 

[Jaguar]

No you don't, you operate them by touch. Believe it or not human machine interaction is a real field of study. These are not guesses.

That hasn't been my experience, but then I drive a Fiat 500 which is notoriously non-intuitive.

 

[AWDtsla]

That hasn't been my experience, but then I drive a Fiat 500 which is notoriously non-intuitive.

Do you look at the brake every time your brake? Do you look at the steering wheel everytime you turn? Do you look at the signal stalk every time your signal? Does the Fiat 500 put the steering and the brakes through a random number generator? Maybe sometimes when you steer left, the car honks and goes into reverse.

 

[Jaguar]

Do you look at the brake every time your brake? Do you look at the steering wheel everytime you turn? Do you look at the signal stalk every time your signal? Does the Fiat 500 put the steering and the brakes through a random number generator? Maybe sometimes when you steer left, the car honks and goes into reverse.

Aside from a few of the most used functions, such as turn signals and brakes, I suspect most people look away from the road when accessing the knobs and buttons on their traditional dashboards, even if it's just for a moment. It's hard to go by feel when you have dozens of buttons nestled in close proximity. That's something most reviewers don't seem to recognize when they criticize the Model 3.

 

[AWDtsla]

Aside from a few of the most used functions, such as turn signals and brakes, I suspect most people look away from the road when accessing the knobs and buttons on their traditional dashboards, even if it's just for a moment.

Operator error.

It's hard to go by feel when you have dozens of buttons nestled in close proximity. That's something most reviewers don't seem to recognize when they criticize the Model 3.

Design error.

The point is not to have lots of anonymous buttons for the sake of having buttons. I assure you there are decades of science and engineering work here. Something the 20-something web developers Tesla hires to work on their UI need to understand as well. All the latest design trends are a usability holocaust, like flat themes everywhere. They do them anyway because it's trendy.

 

[Devanish]

Slammed on the brakes from 60 every day when driving on the Santa Ana Freeway in California. Need this resolved and fixed ASAP.

No, you need a chauffeur ASAP

 

[voip-ninja]

Well, not really. Driving around a test track is like trying out an iPhone in a store thinking you know what it is like to have one.

Just reading the article, it is totally clear they don't really get it.

I don't think you understand that CR pays for the cars they test, and in addition to testing them on the track they rotate them into their fleet of daily drivers which a variety of staff then make use of over the course of the next couple of years... then CR sells those cars and uses the proceeds for the next car(s) they purchase.

They literally let a dozen or more people drive the car on weekends, on ski trips, on their commutes and vacations and then collate the feedback they get and publish it. This includes not only initial testing, but feedback over time, maintenance issues that crop up (which is why they knocked the Model S down a few pegs after looking at multiple $10,000 repairs roll in), etc.

The track testing is just PART of the initial testing they do with all of their cars to see how they stack up to cars in the same segment for performance metrics like braking, acceleration, skidpad, slalom, etc.

You really seem to have a bone to pick and if one parses between the lines of your hot takes, it should be that CR and others should always give Tesla the benefit of the doubt because of "the mission" that Tesla is on.

I hate to be the one to brake (get it?) it to you, but the majority of people in the market for a $50,000+ sports sedan don't necessarily care about the "mission" and if they do care about the "mission" that mission is typically at a lower priority mission than keeping their family safe when they have them in the car.

 

[Driver Dave]

I don't think you understand that CR pays for the cars they test, and in addition to testing them on the track they rotate them into their fleet of daily drivers which a variety of staff then make use of over the course of the next couple of years... then CR sells those cars and uses the proceeds for the next car(s) they purchase.

They literally let a dozen or more people drive the car on weekends, on ski trips, on their commutes and vacations and then collate the feedback they get and publish it. This includes not only initial testing, but feedback over time, maintenance issues that crop up (which is why they knocked the Model S down a few pegs after looking at multiple $10,000 repairs roll in), etc.

The track testing is just PART of the initial testing they do with all of their cars to see how they stack up to cars in the same segment for performance metrics like braking, acceleration, skidpad, slalom, etc.

You really seem to have a bone to pick and if one parses between the lines of your hot takes, it should be that CR and others should always give Tesla the benefit of the doubt because of "the mission" that Tesla is on.

I hate to be the one to brake (get it?) it to you, but the majority of people in the market for a $50,000+ sports sedan don't necessarily care about the "mission" and if they do care about the "mission" that mission is typically at a lower priority mission than keeping their family safe when they have them in the car.

They let people borrow the cars. Not the same as actually owning them and making the decision to buy it or an electric.

It is clear in their reviews, whatever they are doing, they don't get Tesla, or even electric cars. After all, they rank Model X lower than a Prius prime, which is ridiculous.

I do care about Tesla's mission, but don't expect others too.

I do care about when people write reviews or about Tesla without fully understanding what is going on.

There is no way I'd ever buy another gas car. This has nothing to do with Tesla's mission. It has to do that it is clearly a much much better experience owning and driving a Tesla than any gas engine car.

CR and other publications, don't get this. Because they never really go deep into what it is like to switch over to all electric. They think they know based on borrowing a car, or testing it, but it is clear they don't.

When I see them ranking gas and hybrid cars, and with Tesla interspersed between them, it just shows me: CR has no idea what's going on.

Because any car that has to cart around a gas engine for power is in no shape or form is better than a Tesla, or any other pure electric.

 

[voip-ninja]

They let people borrow the cars. Not the same as actually owning them and making the decision to buy it or an electric.

It is clear in their reviews, whatever they are doing, they don't get Tesla, or even electric cars. After all, they rank Model X lower than a Prius prime, which is ridiculous.

I do care about Tesla's mission, but don't expect others too.

I do care about when people write reviews or about Tesla without fully understanding what is going on.

There is no way I'd ever buy another gas car. This has nothing to do with Tesla's mission. It has to do that it is clearly a much much better experience owning and driving a Tesla than any gas engine car.

CR and other publications, don't get this. Because they never really go deep into what it is like to switch over to all electric. They think they know based on borrowing a car, or testing it, but it is clear they don't.

When I see them ranking gas and hybrid cars, and with Tesla interspersed between them, it just shows me: CR has no idea what's going on.

Because any car that has to cart around a gas engine for power is in no shape or form is better than a Tesla, or any other pure electric.

So based on your own words, any electric car is better than any ICE car.

I'm sorry but many people will not agree with that.

 

[Driver Dave]

So based on your own words, any electric car is better than any ICE car.

I'm sorry but many people will not agree with that.

I think most people who drive an electric and say I'll never drive a gas car again would agree.

Do you agree that all touch screen phones are better than old flip phones? Probably.

I think we have reached that point where gas cars, the maintenance, the cost and pain of filling up, and the dealer experience, is just so bad and stupid, that any electric car is better.

Maybe you aren't there, but I sure am. Gas engine cars suck and there is no way I'd ever go back. I'd rather drive a cheap Leaf than a BMW 7.

That probably is the funniest thing. When I see an expensive gas car, like Porsche Panamera, it just looks dumb. Sure it is a nice design but... that big engine, it just feels as old and silly as a steam engine.

Give me a Leaf over a Panamera any day.

 

[voip-ninja]

I think most people who drive an electric and say I'll never drive a gas car again would agree.

Do you agree that all touch screen phones are better than old flip phones? Probably.

I think we have reached that point where gas cars, the maintenance, the cost and pain of filling up, and the dealer experience, is just so bad and stupid, that any electric car is better.

Maybe you aren't there, but I sure am. Gas engine cars suck and there is no way I'd ever go back. I'd rather drive a cheap Leaf than a BMW 7.

That probably is the funniest thing. When I see an expensive gas car, like Porsche Panamera, it just looks dumb. Sure it is a nice design but... that big engine, it just feels as old and silly as a steam engine.

Give me a Leaf over a Panamera any day.

I provided a link to a review earlier in the thread in which a well known reviewer got his press time with a Model 3 for a day of driving in Southern California.

He liked the Model 3.

He was pragmatic and realistic about how the Model 3 compared to similar cars from BMW, Audi, Mercedes and I think a lot of buyers will approach Model 3 similarly.

Perhaps over time more people will come to see things as you do but I simply don't encounter anyone in my circle of automotive enthusiast friends who immediately scoff at the idea that anyone driving an electric car could even consider a dinosaur burning car.

You mentioned the horrors of gasoline, oil, dealers, etc. I go to the dealer one time a year. They give me a nice loaner car. I get my gas burning car back and life is fine for another 12,000 miles or one year.

About every 10 days I stop and put some fuel in the car. It takes maybe 5 minutes at most... probably more like 3 minutes. It's not a big deal.

I'm an engineer, I absolutely understand the advantages of an electric drive train and always leaving my home with a "full tank". However, I'm also a pragmatist, and when I slide my butt into the seat of my $60,000 car I want to get a sense of satisfaction out of the feel of the car, the materials, etc. I don't get a sense of satisfaction about how little CO2 the car produces... but maybe that's just me.

 

[Driver Dave]

I provided a link to a review earlier in the thread in which a well known reviewer got his press time with a Model 3 for a day of driving in Southern California.

He liked the Model 3.

He was pragmatic and realistic about how the Model 3 compared to similar cars from BMW, Audi, Mercedes and I think a lot of buyers will approach Model 3 similarly.

Perhaps over time more people will come to see things as you do but I simply don't encounter anyone in my circle of automotive enthusiast friends who immediately scoff at the idea that anyone driving an electric car could even consider a dinosaur burning car.

You mentioned the horrors of gasoline, oil, dealers, etc. I go to the dealer one time a year. They give me a nice loaner car. I get my gas burning car back and life is fine for another 12,000 miles or one year.

About every 10 days I stop and put some fuel in the car. It takes maybe 5 minutes at most... probably more like 3 minutes. It's not a big deal.

I'm an engineer, I absolutely understand the advantages of an electric drive train and always leaving my home with a "full tank". However, I'm also a pragmatist, and when I slide my butt into the seat of my $60,000 car I want to get a sense of satisfaction out of the feel of the car, the materials, etc. I don't get a sense of satisfaction about how little CO2 the car produces... but maybe that's just me.

Yeah, I can see your point of view.

I actually started to become the opposite though. I was sliding into the seat of a 60k car and was wondering why it still had all these dials all over the place that didn't make sense. And why the technology always seemed like 4 years behind. And why my dealer was still getting a good amount over the price of the car, even when I researched it, decided what I wanted and just needed to order it, unless I decided to go into combat mode and negotiate, but of course with no leverage because the local dealers wrap up the area. And why my dealer, the more expensive the car got, the more they expected my to pay up when service was needed.

And of course now, after getting used to the instant torque of electric, I slide into the 60k car and step on the gas, and hear the engine roar, and wonder why it isn't actually accelerating that fast.

So when I paid a good amount for the Tesla (not a huge amount as I didn't get ludicrous) it was the first time in a long time where I actually felt like I was getting something real and tangible for my money. A better car. A better buying experience. A better driving experience. A better ownership experience.

I was like, finally, I'm actually getting something that feels worth the amount I spent.

And not just an old gas car with more bells and whistles and dials made to feel "luxury"

But I do understand your point of view. Maybe in time, it will change as mine did.

 

[aronth5]

Just curious, what cars are you used to? The 3 is definitely a more stiff car than others, but it’s in line with other sporty vehicles I’ve owned and driven. (For the record, I have the “old” suspension).

Saab 9-3 Sport. I checked with the local service center and they confirmed I have the "new" suspension. One of the reasons I'm concerned is most of the complaints are coming from adult family members riding in the back.

 

[Big Dog]

One of the reasons I'm concerned is most of the complaints are coming from adult family members riding in the back.

There's your problem right there. Just treat it as a 2-seater; it's that much fun!

 

[Erleichda]

Some of the old fogey reviewers should not get into the Tesla until someone has put 3 dozen stick on knobs and fiddeltydos all over, then put a 5 gal of gas and open quart of oil in the back seat for familiar smells. Might need a soundtrack of brrrrp brrrp muffler sounds and heck, put a nice shifty thing in the cup holder for them to feel like they are "driving". Everything about the CR review was BS except for the braking issue. But they didn't get the 0-60 near what others are reporting either, so I'm pretty suspect of the report at this point.

And to the above, yes all other ICE are sucky compared to many of the EVs out there but especially Tesla. It's steam power vs. diesel electrics for locomotives: not even close.

 

[ebmcs03]

Makes no sense. How do you improve the brakes via software? Are they electronic brakes? So if the software crashes the car won’t stop?

 

[xav-]

I have yet to see a single owner who complains about the lack of physical buttons

 

[Daniel in SD]

Makes no sense. How do you improve the brakes via software? Are they electronic brakes? So if the software crashes the car won’t stop?

It’s a flaw in the antilock brake system firmware is the claim. The Model 3 has a conventional hydraulic brake system. Maybe it’s some sort of interaction between the regen algorithm and the ABS algorithm? It would be interesting to know.
Most failure modes should allow the car to stop no matter how many systems crash. The ABS system is almost certainly not designed by Tesla and used in many other cars so I wouldn’t be too worried. It is a little scary that all the code can be changed OTA. It seems like malicious code could in fact disable the brakes.

 

[trils0n]

Makes no sense. How do you improve the brakes via software? Are they electronic brakes? So if the software crashes the car won’t stop?

All modern cars have ABS. ABS is software/firmware controlled. Stopping distance can be negatively effected with bad code, even if the hardware is ok.

 

[voip-ninja]

I have yet to see a single owner who complains about the lack of physical buttons

Multiple real owners in this forum have complained about lack of physical controls.