CR Report/Test on Recent Model S Crash

[OrthoSurg]

The majority will again be penalized because of a minority of morons.
There should be extra restrictive features when you buy the car that can be unlocked after watching videos on the car screen and answering questions.

 

[Saturday]

I imagine these rudimentary attention systems in other cars could be tricked by printing a face of someone and taping it to the seat. Has someone tried this?

There’s no stopping stupid people that have a death wish.

 

[roblab]

A capatcive wheel sensor or eye tracking would take care of that.

Tesla's system for driver "monitoring" sucks.

But, honestly, people shouldn't have to be monitored to make sure they're in the driver's seat, or that their hands are on the wheel. If they prove they are smart enough to defeat such devices, they they should be smart enough to not do stupid cat tricks just to prove they can. Stupid people killing themselves are what started the Darwin Awards. Cleans up the gene pool.

And on that note, it is usually guys that do these idiot tricks. Women seem to be smarter.

 

[Parisio]

They should have done this a long time ago starting from 2014 AP1. Their mistake was going along with Tesla being a silent partner and let other Youtubers risking their lives test that out for us for all these years.

Yes, Youtubers have done it with no drivers in a driver's seat for years but they are not as prestigious as a real reporter's test.

Consumer Reports should have spoken up years ago and not waiting till now to say that hey, there's a weight sensor, why not using it not just to alarm the seat buckling practice but also to deploy the Autopilot Shut Down Process whenever there's a drastic weight reduction detected on the driver's seat.

Teslas preventions are reasonable. People overcoming the preventions is not. Putting one’s life and others at risk is the drivers fault not Tesla! So are we supposed to make sure people can’t hang themselves with their own belts?

 

[sailor350]

I’m waiting for other CR tests. Maybe they could do one on gas tanks exploding after they remove all safety features and then toss them in a fire. Honestly it’s just another hit piece, Tesla does not claim it’s systems can’t be defeated by morons, in fact they make it very clear the system must be monitored at all times and you must keep your hands on the wheel. When did CR fall so far?

Consumer Reports hasn't fallen. But you apparently have with your oddball comments. The CR article pointed out serious problems with the Tesla autopilot that should have been corrected years ago with weight sensors in the driver's seat and cameras to monitor the driver's eyes. Instead, we have horns that fart, and a CEO that's on Saturday Night Live. Look at Cadillac's Super Cruise autopilot, a newcomer that doesn't have these problems.

 

[EVMeister]

The CR article pointed out serious problems with the Tesla autopilot that should have been corrected years ago with weight sensors in the driver's seat and cameras to monitor the driver's eyes. Instead, we have horns that fart, and a CEO that's on Saturday Night Live. Look at Cadillac's Super Cruise autopilot, a newcomer that doesn't have these problems.

Rubbish. Tesla has made perfectly reasonable efforts to make it difficult to use Autopilot if you're not sitting in the driver's seat. Consumer Reports tied a weight to the steering wheel, they had to override the speed in a specific way and they had to lock the seatbelt as if somebody was in the seat. If people want to abuse the system in that way and use it in a way it isn't supposed to be used, that's on them. You can weigh down the accelerator in most cars if you want to as well.

And GM's system likely isn't foolproof either. As people have suggested, an image of the face and other measures such as weight on seats is possible as well. It doesn't really matter what Tesla or GM does to try to foolproof the system. Some will find a way to defeat these measures.

 

[Iain]

Consumer Reports hasn't fallen. But you apparently have with your oddball comments. The CR article pointed out serious problems with the Tesla autopilot that should have been corrected years ago with weight sensors in the driver's seat and cameras to monitor the driver's eyes. Instead, we have horns that fart, and a CEO that's on Saturday Night Live. Look at Cadillac's Super Cruise autopilot, a newcomer that doesn't have these problems.

I'll let your response stand on it's own shaky legs. My guess is since you just joined this group you don't own a Tesla, more than likely never road in a Tesla and surly don't own a single share of Tesla.

 

[Huskyf]

Consumer Reports hasn't fallen. But you apparently have with your oddball comments. The CR article pointed out serious problems with the Tesla autopilot that should have been corrected years ago with weight sensors in the driver's seat and cameras to monitor the driver's eyes. Instead, we have horns that fart, and a CEO that's on Saturday Night Live. Look at Cadillac's Super Cruise autopilot, a newcomer that doesn't have these problems.

Super Cruise doesn't have this problem are you sure ??? I ever saw a dangerous system like that yes driver are monitoring but no alarme nothing see this now you now video at 16:30

 

[sleepydoc]

A capatcive wheel sensor or eye tracking would take care of that.

Tesla's system for driver "monitoring" sucks.

Capacitive sensors don’t work if you have gloves on. Eye tracking fails with sunglasses.

Consumer Reports hasn't fallen. But you apparently have with your oddball comments. The CR article pointed out serious problems with the Tesla autopilot that should have been corrected years ago with weight sensors in the driver's seat and cameras to monitor the driver's eyes. Instead, we have horns that fart, and a CEO that's on Saturday Night Live. Look at Cadillac's Super Cruise autopilot, a newcomer that doesn't have these problems.

I read your (and many other comments here) and wonder why it’s suddenly Tesla’s (or any other manufacturer’s) responsibility to come up with a system that’s impossible to defeat. Tesla has warnings in both the manual and on the screen. When you buy the car, it clearly states that the car is not completely autonomous. You have to regularly provide some sort of input when autopilot is engaged. If you put weights on the steering wheel, buckle the seatbelt when no one‘s in the seat and put a weight in the seat you can trick the system. So what? At what point is it the idiot’s responsibility and not Tesla’s?

Tesla is not the one creating a dangerous situation here; CR is.

Edit: virtually every car can go 100 mph but that’s not safe. Should car makers put limiters on cars? Based on people’s logic here they should.

 

[Tam]

...come up with a system that’s impossible to defeat...

NTSB and Consumer Report are pretty much retrospectively reactions.

NTSB demands a better way to monitor driver such as camera ONLY after 2016 Autpilot death. It was completely silent until something goes wrong.

Same with Consumer Report. It could have done this test a long time ago after the firt AP1 sold in 2014. It was completely silent until this fatal accident.

NTSB is not asking something that is impossible. Tesla did start to install interior cameras starting with Model 3, Model Y, then now 2021 Model S and X.

As a matter of fact, Tesla has already filed a patent on its use of a driver monitoring system since 2019.

As a matter of fact, Tesla has already written codes for monitoring a driver last year.

Tesla is doing it but it is not announcing publically.

 

[rxlawdude]

Capacitive sensors don’t work if you have gloves on. Eye tracking fails with sunglasses.


I read your (and many other comments here) and wonder why it’s suddenly Tesla’s (or any other manufacturer’s) responsibility to come up with a system that’s impossible to defeat. Tesla has warnings in both the manual and on the screen. When you buy the car, it clearly states that the car is not completely autonomous. You have to regularly provide some sort of input when autopilot is engaged. If you put weights on the steering wheel, buckle the seatbelt when no one‘s in the seat and put a weight in the seat you can trick the system. So what? At what point is it the idiot’s responsibility and not Tesla’s?

Tesla is not the one creating a dangerous situation here; CR is.

Edit: virtually every car can go 100 mph but that’s not safe. Should car makers put limiters on cars? Based on people’s logic here they should.

My analogy: Defeating a GFCI outlet in a bathroom, plugging in a hair dryer and taking a bath with it. Lots of work, predictable outcome.

 

[RayEJ]

What don’t you get? They are pointing out the system employed by Tesla can be easily defeated. Unlike systems from other manufacturers like GM which have additional checks in place.

Do you remember the quote "The reason creating foolproof devices is so difficult is because fools are so clever."? Perhaps we should add a Darwin award category for reviewers... Nearly all devices can be used to limit human lifespans, but that's not usually what they were intended to do. Extra points could be awarded when fewer recipients are killed by these "suggestions".

 

[dazedNconfuzed]

Tesla's system for driver "monitoring" sucks.

It only sucks when the driver is making a concerted & deliberate effort to do something obviously, staggeringly, stupid & dangerous in full knowledge that the whole point of the exercise is to make a vehicle do something it was clearly designed to not do.

I’d support Tesla suing CR for libel over this. The report is clearly intended to make Tesla look bad by making the product do something it’s designed to actively resist doing: CR deliberately overrode 2 safeties to facilitate doing something staggeringly & obviously dangerous.

 

[sailor350]

I'll let your response stand on it's own shaky legs. My guess is since you just joined this group you don't own a Tesla, more than likely never road in a Tesla and surly don't own a single share of Tesla.

 

[sgalla04]

I imagine these rudimentary attention systems in other cars could be tricked by printing a face of someone and taping it to the seat. Has someone tried this?

There’s no stopping stupid people that have a death wish.

I agree. It does look like sellers on Amazon are already trying to capitalize on making products available to trick Teslas. Just check out this product which will be available June 21st:

XTAUTO for Tesla Model 3/Y Counterweight Ring for Autopilot Automatic Assisted Driving FSD AP​

Products like this should be banned on Amazon.

 

[2101Guy]

Only reason these stories make the news is due to Tesla's success in what theyve accomplished. The hilarity of the media KNOWING..without question, that the driver/owner intentionally did not maintain full/complete control of the vehicle, and crashed. Willfully did so.

And yet, the attention is squarely on the automaker, not the guy who was fully accountable for the crash.

The media these days...mannnn

Would not suprise me if at least some of these media outlets have investment backing from other non-Tesla EV makers...

 

[CyberPilot]

Reports emerging that there may have been a driver who ran away.

Now that just makes too much sense to talk about ;-)

 

[Dan D.]

I agree. It does look like sellers on Amazon are already trying to capitalize on making products available to trick Teslas. Just check out this product which will be available June 21st:

XTAUTO for Tesla Model 3/Y Counterweight Ring for Autopilot Automatic Assisted Driving FSD AP​

Products like this should be banned on Amazon.

Those products are sometimes banned on some platforms only to reappear with disclaimers like "don’t use while the car is in motion".

There's an Arizona House Bill 2060 which states that a person may not override the safety features of a fully autonomous or partially autonomous vehicle. I don't think it passed yet.

Kavanagh targets Tesla drivers who bypass safety features • Arizona Mirror

Rep. John Kavanagh has proposed legislation that would allow police to ticket Tesla drivers who attempt to circumvent safety features that are part of the electric vehicles’ self-driving modes. Kavanagh, a Fountain Hills Republican and a Tesla owner himself, sponsored House Bill 2060, which...

www.azmirror.com

...it would allow law enforcement in the state to issue a traffic citation to anyone driving a Tesla who had modified the steering wheel with such a device or with their own makeshift one, such as one Tesla forum user who uses fishing weights for his car or the popular water bottle trick.
The maximum penalty would be up to $250.
The bill also stipulates that a person cannot modify the vehicle’s computer programming or mechanically modify the vehicle to override the safety features.

“Granted it may be hard catching people doing this but if you don’t make it illegal you can’t catch people doing this,” Kavanagh said, adding “they may catch a few people.”

Additionally, if a Tesla was involved in a fatal or non-fatal crash and investigators later discovered that the autonomous mode had been tampered with either electronically or physically, it would create an additional citation that could be added.

 

[Brando]

CONSUMER REPORTS: Where is the 10 car comparison?
We all need to know how to defeat safety systems and then SEE if cars crash. right?

 

[Krazaak]

I firmly believe that a person intentionally bypassing a safety system becomes responsible for the outcome. You could argue that it might be an issue of a deficient safety system if it was easily bypassed by a child to an extent more than any other automobile.

That said, I'm really not a fan of Tesla's driver detection system as it currently stands. If I had to choose between detecting hands on the wheel or monitoring the driver's eyes, I would choose eyes every time. Not having your hands on the wheel may increase your reaction time, but you simply can't react to a situation you don't see coming. The other problem is that holding the wheel in a manner to best satisfy the torque sensor also decreases reaction time, a 3 and 9 grip will result in a lot more prompts than resting one hand at the bottom of the wheel.