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Crazy to buy 85 with no options?

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by MassX1317, Jan 25, 2014.

  1. MassX1317

    MassX1317 Addicted to TMC

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    Just got home from my first test drive and holy crap, I feel like my world just changed!

    I have been a huge Tesla fan since the Model S was just a twinkle in Elon's eye but getting behind the wheel just kicked the obsession up a notch or two.

    We didn't make a deposit tonight because we want to decide on what we need/want. With a budget of $82k, it makes it very difficult.

    We could get the 60 with everything we want...rear facing seats, pano, tech, parking sensors...although we aren't even completely sold on needing the tech package or pano which would save $6,750 and keep us well under budget.

    On the other hand we could get an 85, with just rear facing seats (we have 2 kids that a just a little bit too young for them, so they will get a lot of use over the next 8 years). This puts us over budget slightly but we may be able to make it work.

    Daily commute is 80-100 miles. 99% of charging done at home. Have another ICE car. Where we go on vacation 3-4 times a year is 145 miles away, up in the NH mountains.

    Help, we are torn!
     
  2. mark

    mark Member

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    Get the loaded 60 minus pano.
     
  3. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    Range isn't everything. And, your driving patterns don't seem to justify the extra 55 miles or so. Go with the loaded 60. As someone put it nicely here sometime ago, you'll not miss the extra range most days but, you'll miss that nice - insert tech package, pano roof, etc. here - every day!
     
  4. gglockner

    gglockner Member

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    If you're planning to keep the car for 8+ years, the 85 kWh battery is more insurance against battery degradation. I think what you're seeing is that the price can go up quickly with model options. Since you live in the Northeast, the Pano roof is going to be less useful than to people in other regions.
     
  5. Edgewood Dome

    Edgewood Dome Member

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    yep, loaded 60 is the best choice on your budget.
     
  6. EdA

    EdA Model S P-2540

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    I vote the other way. Range is king for me. But it sounds like it may not be a primary focus for you.

    Firstly do you even NEED the rear facing seats? Why would you want your kids so far from you?
    Or will you be carting your kids + friends or kids + others?

    But if you want to stay within budget you can easily live without the tech package (I do).
    Pano is "great" but I rarely open it. A real roof has insulation in the winter (and summer).
     
  7. MassX1317

    MassX1317 Addicted to TMC

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    My thought is the rear seats will be extremely useful as the kids get older and their friends are carted along as well, or the grandparents, friends, family, etc. They won't be used now but I can see a lot of use in the future.

    Pano is more for letting light in the car and getting the openness feeling. The roof is so low and we are used to being in bigger vehicles. More of a creature comfort. Unfortunately they had no cars without Pano so we couldn't compare the two.

    I really don't think we need the tech package. The gps on the iPhone is fine and we rarely need a gps. Heated mirrors are useless for a garaged car, driver memory is awesome. Love parking sensors and it needs the tech package. Am I way off base here for not really wanting this?

    Nothing else on the options is really catching my eye.

    Would the 60 be ok for going from Cape Cod to Lake Winnipesaukee? A little bit longer than I thought, 165 miles. I figure each trip up there costs $100 in gas.
     
  8. howardc64

    howardc64 Member

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    #8 howardc64, Jan 25, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
    I don't have tech and wish I had. My Garmin GPS has reception problems in the Tesla due to RF shielded windshield. Waze on iPhone seems a little wacky as well. Some people have noted problems and some say everything works fine. Not sure what is the difference.

    The other item in tech package that my wife liked is powered reared hatch (had a loaner with it for 1 day). Useful with our older kids and their backpacks on daily school shuttle runs.

    If you are near super charger network, you might be inclined to use it for longer distance travels if you have the 85Whr. With a little planning to figure out the charging spots, this car can pretty much go anywhere.

    On the rear facing child seats. I have a Volvo with those and we never used it much. But don't have extended family nearby that would have prompted more frequent use. One thing to consider is kids out grow those by age 10 or 11 (don't know how big the seats are in Tesla). If you plan to have 2 kids back there, you have to figure out the how long can you get both kids back there before 1 starts to out grow the seats.

    On range, you will get lower than quoted range. 165 miles might give you serious range anxiety if it was cold outside (cabin heat eats range), want to run HVAC to keep windows clear with lots of occupants (this car likes to fog up), you drive fast (rated range is for like 65mph or lower), get some battery capacity loss, have some big hills (eats range), and don't want to come too close to 0 or wait for a full charge (charging rate slows down as the battery gets full). I have an 85Whr, I find myself charging to just a little over 200miles (80%) at super chargers to avoid the slower remaining charging rates. Actual range is 15-20% lower than rated range in winter months in the Northwest (65mph, HVAC on low to keep the windows clear of fog and 68-70F cabin)

    Hope this helps. Go for 85 if you want long distance freedom. Get the 60 with more options if you are happy with just a local car. But Tesla's free to charge supercharger network is inviting for taking the nicest car on a free (my wife worries about depreciation haha) long distance trips :)
     
  9. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    60+SC is almost as good for long distance travel given how dense the Supercharger network is getting. Many of us have done long roadtrips with ease in our 60s. I take offense to the 60 being branded a local car. :)
     
  10. liuping

    liuping Active Member

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    I would do the 85 with the Tech and Rear seats. With sales tax that is only about $3k over your budget. You will not regret the Tech or the 85.
     
  11. Mnlevin

    Mnlevin Member

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    I have a 60 w only a few options and feel it is a great car. Have used the SC to go on trips and there is not anxiety. Charge 90%+ at home. I think most of the options are BS. The standard maps are just fine and it can locate any address you could want dont need navigation, dont need special radio, dont need air suspension and I think the rear facing seats are a joke. I would never put my kids back there. the pano roof, leather and cargo shelf are all somewhat valuable options to me. All that said, if I buy another one, I would literally purchase an 85 with NO options except the cargo shelf, would even take the cloth seats. BTW the 22 tires are a terrible option, they wear out quickly and reduce the range of the car.
     
  12. liuping

    liuping Active Member

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    145 miles plus elevation might be pushing the 60 close to max range, especially in winter.

    I'd check out EVTripPlanner, it will give very accurate power usage, taking into account elevation changes, temperature, and cargo weight.
     
  13. stevezzzz

    stevezzzz R;SigS;P85D;SigX

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    Tech package for sure. Pano roof is a nice-to-have, but almost essential if you're tall or plan to put tall people in the back seat: more headroom. 19" wheels so you don't blow the budget later on buying expensive tires and replacing broken rims. You don't always need the 85kWh battery, but when you do, you really do. And battery degradation, while not a major concern, will definitely pinch your range after a few years. You have a dilemma...
     
  14. Odenator

    Odenator P2607

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    Your driving habits might change once you get spoiled by driving all electric and never want to drive your ICE ever again. You may also find that you will want to road trip more in the MS. Looking at the the 2015 supercharger map, it's hard to determine if a SC will be conveniently placed along your likely driving route. My personal opinion is that range is the most premium feature that allows for pleasurable driving. So I would recommend going with the 85.
     
  15. MikeL

    MikeL some guy

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    First, congrats! You are making the world a better place. My two cents:

    get cloth seats. That's a big $ chunk, Tesla's are very nice.

    & if you get a 60, keep in mind that down the road, in less than 2 minutes, you should be able to drop the battery and pop on a fresh new 85! I know it's possible, I saw it live (streaming). You will, of course, need to bring the extra $$$ !

    oh, and another vote for the practicality of the 19"ers
     
  16. ColinM

    ColinM Member

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    #16 ColinM, Jan 25, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
    I would go for the 85 and tech package. You would be around $78K. if you decide on the rear seats - you will be almost exactly at your budget amount.

    This is almost exactly what I picked out and I a have no regrets (true it's only been 3 1/2 weeks so far). My rationale is as follows.
    1) I seldom had my sun-roof open on my previous car. OK - I am not a sun worshiper so the pano roof was never going to be a priority for me.
    2) I picked the tech package - not because you need it, but because it has a lot of cool things in there.
    3) Range matters. Let me explain. My daily commute is only 65 miles - so it's less than yours. However, there are some important considerations for daily use (not road trips). a) For daily use you only charge to 80-90% in order to preserve battery longevity. Let's use 85% - that gives you 225 miles on the 85 and 175 miles for the 60. b) With careful driving you may get close to that number, but I doubt it is realistic to assume that your driving conditions (hills, traffic, etc.) will get you quite there. So subtract another 10 miles. c) Then in winter - especially one like this one (Massachusetts may not be quite as bad as Chicago, but you also have had some extremely cold temperatures) you will lose range due to battery heating, passenger heating and reduced regen during battery heating. Let's say another 15 miles lost. d) You never want to take your battery too close to zero (both for your mental health and the damage to the battery) - so let's assume you always want to stay above 20 miles. e) In a few years time there will be some battery degradation - the effect of which is reduced range. At some point (say 10 years) I am told that could be a 40% hit to your range. I am not sure what to subtract for this - make your own call. However, if you take my assumptions a) through d) you have 130 (60) and 190 (85) miles effective daily range. I have made a lot of assumptions here - I am sure some could be argued (and probably will be in following comments) but I think the principles should be considered. So when I look at my choice - living in a place that has a real winter, with the commute I have, I still want to be able to shoot off to the grocery store, or church, or some function without having to feel I need to switch to the ICE car. A SC doesn't normally fit into a daily commute. Maybe you have a charging option at work or home during the day - that would change my assumptions a lot.

    Apart from that, I would go with the 85 with the tech package. Rear seats optional.
     
  17. SwedishAdvocate

    SwedishAdvocate Active Member

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    Since the OP lives in Massachusetts and sometimes ventures up in the NH Mountains, shouldn’t he also budget for an extra set of wheels with good winter tires? And how about the Subzero Weather Package?
     
  18. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    THIS. get the 85 + tech package. that is all. you're going to need that extra range, trust me on this. with a commute as large as yours, you'll regret it if you get the 60 and not the 85. come winter time , with 90% charge, and a huge headwind both directions, and other various factors, you'll be cutting it close. I've actually used 200 miles range to go 100 miles on several occasions. (my commute is ~210 miles round trip daily). granted, I was going much faster than the speed limit in 0 degree weather with the heat on, but that just goes to show you its possible to be pretty inefficient under certain scenarios. if anything, with a 60 you'll be cycling your battery pack a lot more. the 85 isn't really much more expensive than the 60. one of the biggest complaints I heard from people are from those who got the 60 and wish they could have gone back and ordered the 85 instead. even under all those conditions you may still have a comfortable commute home, but you'll certainly have issues when you need to stop at store A then go to store B and back home etc etc. if you go from point A -> B -> A consistently every day with no detours ever, you'll be fine. but you're going to need more range if you plan on doing anything else significant on your way home.
     
  19. howardc64

    howardc64 Member

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    #19 howardc64, Jan 25, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
    I can see 60 being a long distance car so I certainly shouldn't call it a local car :) I'd imagine needing to be a bit more precise as well as range charge often at supercharger stops? On the only long distance travel I've done in my 85 (2 super charger stops on the way), I just charge to slightly over 80%/200 miles at high charge rate and run to next super charger (~130 miles away) with 50+ miles to spare. So basically never worried about speed, heater/accessory usage, how close I'll be cutting it until the next SC stop etc...
     
  20. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Agree with yobigd. In an EV range is everything regardless of your typical commute. You will love driving the S so much you will want to drive it everywhere. And the Tech Package makes the car almost perfect. Everything else is just icing, nice but not essential. If you just have two kids I don't understand the interest in the rear facing seats,your kids will grow out of them in a few years anyway.
     

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