Cross Country Rally to TMC Connect 2014

[aaron.s]

Ben

Good points on both counts... I suppose, depending on the number of cars we ultimately get for this road trip, would tip the scales one way or another.

If we don't have a lot of cars, say 8 for a total of 2 hours at each supercharger, then doing this as a whole group would be easy. It would allow us to socialize while the cars are charging and also give us all more "recharge" time.

More cars could significantly lengthen the day of course, if we stay together. I tentatively have 8-10 cars starting from the east coast already, with another 4 tentative joining along the way (in IL, MO & CO!).

Ultimately, we'll discuss the pro's and con's and make a group decision...

Aaron

That's actually an interesting point -- what's the difference between staggering start times and breaking up the group, vs. the whole group showing up and hanging out at the SC while we swap cars around? There are pro's and cons ... like

* No groups means stuff like:
** We swamp the station which screws anyone else who shows up who's NOT part of the trip
** Everyone has a much longer day; may need to cover less distance per day
** We *all* get to hang out at the SC
* Groups means stuff like:
** Each group has a fixed, short stop time; overall trip time is approximately the same
** The first group starts early, ends early
** The last group starts late, ends late
** Easier to stay part of the caravan
** Breaks up the social part of the trip

*shrug*

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Jim

I wasn't calculating speed, I was actually gauging it by days of travel. I was hoping we could do this in 5 days (each way). This would, buy my rough calculations via the map I made of proposed superchargers, total about 675 miles per day. Long - but doable!

Add to that the conference itself of 3-4 days and we're now at 2 weeks total. For many people, taking this much time off is probably a stretch. For those that, like myself are self-employed or retired (and are willing to take the time off), less so - but 2 weeks total is still a long time....

Aaron

I agree 100%. There's a few reasons for this, but that includes safety as everyone checks in and we'll know who should be where and when. Another thing we can do is use either portable or CB radios on a dedicated channel for inter car communications.

Aaron, were you timing the speed out at 60 or 70? Thats going to be a big deal to avoid stacking at the SC stations (although Im not sure why we're so afraid of that)

 

[adiggs]

As an observation from what I learned in the BC2BC rally this year, one of the limiting factors in the drive is going to be charging time. If you're only using Superchargers, and you're making the drive on your own (nobody to contend with at SC's along the way), what would a reasonable day of travel be along with associated SC time? How fast would you be driving?

I suspect that you would drive at whatever speed you're comfortable driving at on the freeway, as the incremental energy used at higher driving speed won't materially affect your charging time. So you drive ~150 miles in 2h, charge for 20 minutes, and repeat? Do that 4 times with 3 charging cycles and you're about 600 miles during the day over 8h driving plus 1h charging. (As a Roadster owner, I just have to say that's ridiculously good). One thing you'll learn on this sort of road trip is that you only need to charge enough at the SC to get to the next SC. Additional charging time at full speed (or close) isn't wasted - it saves you charging time from the next charging stop. But charging time to top off the battery largely IS wasted time, as the charging speed gets slower and slower. So charge to 60 or 80% - whatever it takes to get to the next planned stop without particular worry or effort, and just go.

To simplify the planning, assume that you SC rather than charge overnight - it's nice when you can overnight somewhere and get a charge as well, but when you're saving 20 minutes, it's also not a big deal if it doesn't work out. So 8h30m is actually kind of a shortish day when you're traveling.


Your challenge will arise when too many cars arrive at an SC, as people start to wait. My suggestion is that as cars get what they need from a SC, they move on down the road to the next charger. Think of it as having as many chargers at work as you can arrange. I suspect natural groups of 2-4 cars will form in this case, with an evening regrouping, and with people seeing each other during the day as one group arrives at an SC, and the group ahead is leaving. (I'm assuming 8 SC charging slots, with 4 full power, at each SC installation).

If you're going to cover 600-700 miles a day at 75mi/hr, then you need to be driving a lot; that doesn't leave much time for charging, and really doesn't leave much time for standing about. One suggestion - a minimum of 2 drivers per car, so you can rotate drivers over driving segments.

Heck - with driver rotations, you can be sleeping while driving, and keep the car moving or charging continuously. I think somebody has to do this, just to see how fast a Model S can be driven coast to coast.

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I once organized a cross-country expedition with a group of gliders; we flew from the Mexican border to the Canadian border along the spine of the Continental Divide in seven days. What made the trip so memorable was not just the flying, but the fact that we ended every day grouped around a table in a restaurant somewhere, having dinner and reliving the day's adventures.

If we really want this to be a social event rather than a death march, I believe a sustainable pace would incorporate, at most, three Supercharger stops per day. If there are no gaps in the SC network, overnight charging wouldn't be strictly necessary, which makes planning for the overnight stops much more flexible. If more than five or six cars participate, it may make sense to loosen up the convoy by designating more than one town along the route for each overnight. Otherwise the staggered starts necessary to avoid flooding Superchargers will shorten the feasible daily distance even more.

Are there any Operations Research types out there who care to model this problem?

I like the way you're thinking Steve - I have a suggestion for y'all to consider as you're planning this. The SC's making getting electricity so convenient, instead of thinking in terms of SCs or SC stops, think in terms of miles you'd like to cover. As long as you're following along an SC corridor, then it really doesn't matter whether you stop with a full or low battery, and it really doesn't matter how many actual SC stops you do. You might find 4 shorter stops better than 3 longer ones on some days, and then the chargers are spread out right for it.

If you're looking to be on the road at 9am and in a restaurant at 7pm, then that's 10 hours. Call that 8h of driving with 2h of whatever, maybe that's more of a deathmarch than desired? That'd be about 550 miles covered (8h @ 70m/h), with a need for 300-350 miles of charging somewhere somehow along the line (at a SC). The 60's might need more like 350-400 worth of charge, but that doesn't materially change things.

The key input that you'll need is how much distance you want to cover each day, and more accurately - what sort of a range you'd like to cover. If you decided on 550 miles, then you'll end up with some 500ish and some 600ish days.

Y'all are gonna have a blast with this!

 

[Adlink]

Aaron,

Please count me in. If my work schedule permits I will definitely go. I may have to hitch a ride one way with Dante and fly back.

 

[dmetcalf]

I'd love to do a southern route but it's impossible to tell if SC's will be open in time (there's a huge "jump" in the map tat just says "2014")

I'd be in if FL to CA is a reality by then.

 

[aaron.s]

Thanks for all the tips adiggs!

Aaron

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Adlink - I added you to my list as a tentative passenger with Dante...

Aaron

Aaron,

Please count me in. If my work schedule permits I will definitely go. I may have to hitch a ride one way with Dante and fly back.

 

[stevezzzz]

I'm guessing this will sort itself out into two groups starting from the east coast: those who will start from the east coast on Saturday morning and plan to arrive at TESLIVE on Thursday evening, and those who will leave from the east coast on Monday morning and plan to arrive at TESLIVE on Friday.

I guess what I'm saying is, east coasters who don't plan a full two weeks (plus the extra weekend) for the round trip are likely to end up like Stephane, from Montreal, who this year pulled into TESLIVE on Sunday morning just in time for the group drive. I doubt he planned it that way, but the realities of cross country travel in an EV intervened.

IF the Supercharger network is built out, WITHOUT gaps, and IF none of them are down and IF no one else is using them and IF weather and construction and mechanical breakdown don't rear their ugly heads, THEN a five day coast-to-coast is comfortably doable: three days to Denver, two days to the Bay Area.

 

[andrewket]

Or we put two people per car, and try to drive near 24/7. Fold down the back seats and you could sleep fairly comfortably with an air mattress and sleeping bag.

A

 

[Liz G]

Or we put two people per car, and try to drive near 24/7. Fold down the back seats and you could sleep fairly comfortably with an air mattress and sleeping bag.

A

+1
Air mattress definitely needed for comfort.

 

[aaron.s]

:biggrin:

Aaron

+1
Air mattress definitely needed for comfort.

 

[brianman]

what's the difference between staggering start times and breaking up the group...

My vote is that the pool side gathering starts as soon as 2 vehicles arrive, and ends whenever the cookies run out at the hot tub.

 

[bluefuego]

Or we put two people per car, and try to drive near 24/7. Fold down the back seats and you could sleep fairly comfortably with an air mattress and sleeping bag.

A

The crazy part of me would be willing to do this.

 

[brianman]

Here is my initial aggressive 7 day plan.
TOTAL 3205

Discounting 1 day I took to visit a relative and 2.5 days for Teslive, I effectively did 4,000 miles in 7.5 days with single driver. Definitely doable to cover 3,205 in 7 days.

Also, I could probably have shaved off a day or two from my 7.5 if superchargers were alive in Washington and Oregon.

 

[Liz G]

My vote is that the pool side gathering starts as soon as 2 vehicles arrive, and ends whenever the cookies run out at the hot tub.

I'll bring the cookies!

 

[aaron.s]

Excellent!

Aaron

I'll bring the cookies!

 

[toto_48313]

I did it this year without the supercharger, and it took me 13 days each way with some detour, and the kids in the car. One way could easily be done in 5 days with supercharger all the way long.

What you need to pay attention on is your tires...make sure you rotate them while in California.

 

[Cottonwood]

Ben

Good points on both counts... I suppose, depending on the number of cars we ultimately get for this road trip, would tip the scales one way or another.

If we don't have a lot of cars, say 8 for a total of 2 hours at each supercharger, then doing this as a whole group would be easy. It would allow us to socialize while the cars are charging and also give us all more "recharge" time.

More cars could significantly lengthen the day of course, if we stay together. I tentatively have 8-10 cars starting from the east coast already, with another 4 tentative joining along the way (in IL, MO & CO!).

Ultimately, we'll discuss the pro's and con's and make a group decision...

Aaron

I also live in Colorado, and in Boulder. I think we just need to reserve "The Kitchen", Kimbal Musk's restaurant for the evening. I have 2 each 14-50 outlets, a 70A Roadster charger (someone needs to bring a Roadster to S adapter, or we borrow one from the Denver Service center. All this with at least 3 spare bedrooms in Boulder. I would love to act as a host and probably join the group heading west.

For mid-trip overnights, a little searching of RV parks that have 14-50's and cabins is a great choice. Charge overnight and stay in the cabin.

 

[aaron.s]

I also live in Colorado, and in Boulder. I think we just need to reserve "The Kitchen", Kimbal Musk's restaurant for the evening. I have 2 each 14-50 outlets, a 70A Roadster charger (someone needs to bring a Roadster to S adapter, or we borrow one from the Denver Service center. All this with at least 3 spare bedrooms in Boulder. I would love to act as a host and probably join the group heading west.

For mid-trip overnights, a little searching of RV parks that have 14-50's and cabins is a great choice. Charge overnight and stay in the cabin.

Sounds Great! Thanks so much for offering!

Lets plan on this being one of our stops and also going to Kimball Musk's restaurant. I am hoping that with enough superchargers, we won't even have to be charging overnight!

Aaron

 

[stevezzzz]

I've got two more 14-50's and a couple of spare guest rooms just outside Boulder, and I second Cottonwood's idea about the Kitchen. It's less than 90 miles to the soon-to-be operational Silverthorne Supercharger (with eight bays!) from my house, albeit on the other side of the Continental Divide and the 6,000' elevation gain required to reach the Eisenhower tunnel.

 

[aaron.s]

I've got two more 14-50's and a couple of spare guest rooms just outside Boulder, and I second Cottonwood's idea about the Kitchen. It's less than 90 miles to the soon-to-be operational Silverthorne Supercharger (with eight bays!) from my house, albeit on the other side of the Continental Divide and the 6,000' elevation gain required to reach the Eisenhower tunnel.

TOTALY GAME! Reserve me a room! Always love good company and good food!

Aaron

 

[stevezzzz]

TOTALY GAME! Reserve me a room! Always love good company and good food!

Aaron

You got it, Aaron.