Cross Rotating Michelin MXM4 19"

[jerry33]

Thanks @jerry33. I've certainly come to respect your knowledge and advice when it comes to all things tires and wheels!

Am I to assume that once you've chosen a rotation methodology, you should stick to it for the life of the tires? I think that is what I'm seeing implied here.

I am not aware of reason not to stick to a particular rotation method. There isn't any harm in switching methods, but there's no advantage either--at least not one that is known at the present time. (The X-rotation method reducing tire noise is an interesting hypothesis, but it needs confirmation by some real controlled testing.) The main reason for switching rotation methods is to get rid of a particular kind of wear that is showing up on one tire--preferably after you get the alignment, or other mechanical problem, fixed so that the other three tires won't also wear the same way. (The alternative is getting rid of the car and making it someone else's problem.)

 

[Bill D]

If you do a first "early" rotation, it will set up an even wear pattern because every tire will get a chance on the drive axle. The longer between rotations, the more time the free rolling wheel positions will have to impart a wear pattern, but that first rotation (about 1500 miles) is the most important one.

I did the 1st rotation on my 19" Michelin Primacy tires at 10K miles and I felt like the tire noise increased just after the rotation, but thought I was imagining it until this thread. The rotation was front-back only. You're saying I'm stuck with how the tires sound until they wear out?

 

[brucet999]

Originally Posted by brucet999
Tire manufacturers have for decades instructed that once a radial tire has been run for a few thousand miles it should not be rotated to the other side of the vehicle.

No they haven't. This is just FUD from the time when the North American tire manufacturers were trying to stem the tide of radial tires.

If you do a first "early" rotation, it will set up an even wear pattern because every tire will get a chance on the drive axle. The longer between rotations, the more time the free rolling wheel positions will have to impart a wear pattern, but that first rotation (about 1500 miles) is the most important one.

I question the FUD theory, since it was the Michelin dealer who sold me my first set of steel belted radials for my '68 Mustang fastback who told me not to cross-rotate. I fail to see what benefit such a story would have for bias-ply tire makers anyway. Who would have been afraid to buy radials because the rotation pattern was different?

Tell us more about the early rotation theory and how often should subsequent rotations be done. I can imagine that adverse tire wear patterns might be avoided by not giving them much time to form. If I understand correctly, once adverse wear patterns form, rotation won't correct them.

 

[Electricfan]

If you do a first "early" rotation, it will set up an even wear pattern because every tire will get a chance on the drive axle. The longer between rotations, the more time the free rolling wheel positions will have to impart a wear pattern, but that first rotation (about 1500 miles) is the most important one.

I googled for a few minutes, so I'm an expert now, and I can't find any reference to rotating a new set of tires at 1500 miles. Is this a "Jerryism", or is it recommended by a tire company, or some other authority?

 

[jerry33]

Originally Posted by brucet999
Tire manufacturers have for decades instructed that once a radial tire has been run for a few thousand miles it should not be rotated to the other side of the vehicle.



No they haven't. This is just FUD from the time when the North American tire manufacturers were trying to stem the tide of radial tires.

I question the FUD theory, since it was the Michelin dealer who sold me my first set of steel belted radials for my '68 Mustang fastback who told me not to cross-rotate. I fail to see what benefit such a story would have for bias-ply tire makers anyway. Who would have been afraid to buy radials because the rotation pattern was different?

Tell us more about the early rotation theory and how often should subsequent rotations be done. I can imagine that adverse tire wear patterns might be avoided by not giving them much time to form. If I understand correctly, once adverse wear patterns form, rotation won't correct them.

1. I can assure you that many Michelin dealers at the time listened to the FUD and passed it along. Sometimes on the hypothesis that it would do no harm and might even help, and sometimes because they believed it. No tire dealer sells only Michelin tires, and they all had other voices talking to them.

2. It is sometimes possible to reduce the sound by rotation, and sometimes not. It's one of those "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" things.

3. I was involved in large scale studies with early rotation for one of my former employers. Doing an early rotation did more to limit odd wear later in the tire's life than anything other than keeping the inflation pressure up and the car in good mechanical condition. Of course, it didn't prevent every odd wear problem (noise wasn't studied) but a far larger percentage of early rotated tires had odd wear free lives than those that weren't early rotated.

 

[Electricfan]

3. I was involved in large scale studies with early rotation for one of my former employers. Doing an early rotation did more to limit odd wear later in the tire's life than anything other than keeping the inflation pressure up and the car in good mechanical condition. Of course, it didn't prevent every odd wear problem (noise wasn't studied) but a far larger percentage of early rotated tires had odd wear free lives than those that weren't early rotated.

Thanks. Wish they had published this tidbit.

 

[brucet999]

3. I was involved in large scale studies with early rotation for one of my former employers. Doing an early rotation did more to limit odd wear later in the tire's life than anything other than keeping the inflation pressure up and the car in good mechanical condition. Of course, it didn't prevent every odd wear problem (noise wasn't studied) but a far larger percentage of early rotated tires had odd wear free lives than those that weren't early rotated.

You didn't say if only the first rotation should be early or if second or subsequent rotations should also be 1500 miles.

 

[jerry33]

You didn't say if only the first rotation should be early or if second or subsequent rotations should also be 1500 miles.

Just the first.

 

[ribsandbbqbeef]

Interesting how this thread developed. Thanks for the Michelin link on tire rotation.

I initially posed the question, not because of tire noise, but I wanted to maximize the life of my tires & also maintain equal performance by even wear.

From what's posted here, I'm probably going to go with Michelin website's cross rotation method & see how many miles I can get on these Primacy's.

Thanks.

 

[doc@tirerack]

Sorry I'm late to the party on this one....cliff notes on our opinion is to rotate every 3K to 5K miles for the first 15k miles, and then every 6K after that (I personally recommend every 3K primarily for Front wheel drive applications) To be sure, even more frequent rotation schedules help the tires' long term health !

Click here to see our full Tech article on the subject !

 

[brucet999]

Sorry I'm late to the party on this one....cliff notes on our opinion is to rotate every 3K to 5K miles for the first 15k miles, and then every 6K after that (I personally recommend every 3K primarily for Front wheel drive applications) To be sure, even more frequent rotation schedules help the tires' long term health !

Click here to see our full Tech article on the subject !

So, for purposes of tire rotation, are the D cars AWD in spite of torque sleep leaving one motor unpowered much of the time? Does anyone know which motor does the lion's share of the work?

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I have not rotated my tires in over 7,500 miles. Not by choice. My service center told me twice in the last 5,000 miles that my tire wear is so incredibly even that after 7,500 miles since my last rotation, I won't need rotation until likely 10,000 miles.

 

[shadowinstallz]

This was the response I got from Tesla regarding tire rotation.


Thank you for reaching out to tech support. Tires on an 85D are rotated the same as a standard 85. It would only be different on*P85D’s with the wider rear wheels.
*
For tire rotation, the front wheels go directly back to the rear, but the rear wheels cross in an “X” so they go to the opposite sides on the front

 

[ohmman]

I recently had my stock 19" MXM4s rotated in conjunction with a SC realignment due to a DU replacement. Shortly thereafter, I took a road trip to Seattle, and once up there, or nearly there, I noticed flaking occurring on the front tires. See attached photos. I've had my SC look at it, and they were thorough (actually looked at it twice) but we couldn't come up with a good reason. Alignment was my first thought, rotation was my second thought. SC suggests rough road, and I-5 does get pretty crunchy up through Oregon and southern Washington, but I can't imagine it's related to that.

Any other thoughts?

 

[jerry33]

I recently had my stock 19" MXM4s rotated in conjunction with a SC realignment due to a DU replacement. Shortly thereafter, I took a road trip to Seattle, and once up there, or nearly there, I noticed flaking occurring on the front tires. See attached photos. I've had my SC look at it, and they were thorough (actually looked at it twice) but we couldn't come up with a good reason. Alignment was my first thought, rotation was my second thought. SC suggests rough road, and I-5 does get pretty crunchy up through Oregon and southern Washington, but I can't imagine it's related to that.

There are three things that come to mind, and rotation isn't one of them:

1. Gravel roads.

2. Dynamometer.

3. Low tire pressure.

From the pictures, I'd go with gravel roads.

 

[ohmman]

Thanks. That's where all signs pointed, but the gravel road is the only thing that makes any sense. I live on a compacted gravel road but have done so for the previous 16 months of ownership with no signs of damage. I believe it must have been some combination of the rough NW roadways and previous micro damage to the tires on my road.

I will be replacing these soon. Are owners still mostly getting the same tires these days?

 

[mackgoo]

Actually looking at Michelins rating graphic, link supplied, it appears backs go to the front same side, fronts go to back crossed.

 

[jerry33]

Thanks. That's where all signs pointed, but the gravel road is the only thing that makes any sense. I live on a compacted gravel road but have done so for the previous 16 months of ownership with no signs of damage. I believe it must have been some combination of the rough NW roadways and previous micro damage to the tires on my road.

I will be replacing these soon. Are owners still mostly getting the same tires these days?

I am as there isn't anything better in terms of rolling resistance, tire life, and flat protection for three season use. If you want more performance, there are better 19" tires. And in the winter you want some real winter tires if you live where it snows, or some severe service all-seasons, such as Nokian WR-g3 if you live where it doesn't snow much but has ice days (DFW for example).

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks. That's where all signs pointed, but the gravel road is the only thing that makes any sense. I live on a compacted gravel road but have done so for the previous 16 months of ownership with no signs of damage. I believe it must have been some combination of the rough NW roadways and previous micro damage to the tires on my road.

A different kind of gravel than used previously would do it. The damage actually happens when you first go on pavement driving over the gravel that spills onto the pavement. That gravel gets pounded into the tires. With the low aspect ratio tires there isn't a great deal you can do about it. With higher aspect ratio profile tires, you can minimize the damage by lowering tire pressure a bit, but if you do that with any Tesla size tire, you'll just end up with pinch shock damage and maybe wheel damage as well.

 

[tezco]

...A different kind of gravel than used previously would do it. The damage actually happens when you first go on pavement driving over the gravel that spills onto the pavement. That gravel gets pounded into the tires....

I always keep a light foot on the accelerator when driving thru these transitional areas so the gravel doesn't roll around under the tires. Also, no peeling out in gravel for me...

I also noticed Tire Rack's Tire Service/Maintenance PDF footnote agrees with Jerry's recommendation that "Rotations early in the tire's life are most important to prevent irregular tire wear".

 

[jerry33]

I always keep a light foot on the accelerator when driving thru these transitional areas so the gravel doesn't roll around under the tires. Also, no peeling out in gravel for me...

Of course those things help, but the problem is that the pavement is hard and just driving over gravel on top of pavement presses the rocks harder into the tire than driving on gravel alone.