Cruise Control improvements

[Tedkidd]

Cool! I've never driven a car with paddles like that, sounds like it could be fun.

All the high end sports cars seem to have them now, and not so high end. Drove a GTI with them. Really nice with DSG, particularly since VW's auto to manual shift design is abysmal. Lot of TDI owners are swapping their steering wheels to get 'em.

 

[simonog]

Having been brought up with manual transmission, I was immediately attracted to paddles on my Land Rover as it made the auto box much more fun. I can also get 5-10% better fuel consumption than in fully auto mode. I think this is because we can anticipate road conditions ahead whereas an auto box, however good, can currently only react to changes as they occur.


when there isn't a gearbox (as Model S), it's hard to see paddles having quite the same effect. 8 or 9 steps of regen would surely add little to the control we already get from feathering the throttle and slight adjustments to that?

 

[N4HHE]

+1, too jerky, uncomfortable. Had a 320cdi, really liked how that cruise worked. Also liked how it displayed.

Regen paddles would be really nice..

Firmware 5.9 cruise control has been tamed a bit since 5.8.4 but its still rougher than the worst of conventional engine/transmission cruise controls.

My ML320 has transmission shifter paddles on the steering wheel to override the transmission. I don't find them to be of much use but for running down mountains pulling a trailer. Thats the only situation where the programmed shift points may not do enough engine braking. Ford F250's tow/haul mode did an excellent job but M-B doesn't have a user-selectable mode, it "automatically" changes for conditions.

 

[ecarfan]

Firmware 5.9 cruise control has been tamed a bit since 5.8.4 but its still rougher than the worst of conventional engine/transmission cruise

The Model S cruise control is smoother and more precise than the cruise control in my 2009 Porsche.

 

[PhilBa]

when there isn't a gearbox (as Model S), it's hard to see paddles having quite the same effect. 8 or 9 steps of regen would surely add little to the control we already get from feathering the throttle and slight adjustments to that?

Exactly. Using the accelerator pedal for regen control is ideal. It allows for a completely smooth transition between low and high regen without fiddling with your hands. I see no need to simulate the behavior of a multigear transmission.

 

[N4HHE]

The Model S cruise control is smoother and more precise than the cruise control in my 2009 Porsche.

Its fine once engaged but its still too aggressive when using the +-1 and +-5 MPH trim modes.

Also when disengaged I'd want it to go into regenless "neutral" until after the vehicle is actively manually driven with the accelerator pedal. Flip the lever to disengage and in 5.8.4 it went into full regenerative braking. Its not quite as bad in 5.9.

This is related to the new hill hold feature. The MS will not roll backwards for a 1/2 second or second after foot is removed from brake. Previously it would immediately roll backwards and complain if you tried to apply accelerator to drive off while holding the brake. Still complains if you try that but its not as necessary as before.

 

[fryfrye]

Its fine once engaged but its still too aggressive when using the +-1 and +-5 MPH trim modes.

Also when disengaged I'd want it to go into regenless "neutral" until after the vehicle is actively manually driven with the accelerator pedal. Flip the lever to disengage and in 5.8.4 it went into full regenerative braking. Its not quite as bad in 5.9.

THIS!

Coming out of cruise control can be tricky at high speeds... I sort of have the idea of accelerator then disengage set, but its the slight brake tap to just slow a little that still gets me... and the +/-1 is still to touchy.

 

[ecarfan]

I am not questioning your perception of how the cruise control works, but to me it is very smooth and easy to use. At freeway speeds when I disengage it all that I have to do is apply very slight pressure to the go pedal as it disengages and I can maintain a steady speed.

At first the way the cruise control stalk worked was confusing because it is pretty much the opposite of how my Porsche works. But now it is intuitive.

 

[FLDarren]

At freeway speeds when I disengage it all that I have to do is apply very slight pressure to the go pedal as it disengages and I can maintain a steady speed.

At first the way the cruise control stalk worked was confusing because it is pretty much the opposite of how my Porsche works. But now it is intuitive.

Same way with my Prius. After 2 days I am now a cruise control master.:biggrin:

 

[N4HHE]

I am not questioning your perception of how the cruise control works, but to me it is very smooth and easy to use. At freeway speeds when I disengage it all that I have to do is apply very slight pressure to the go pedal as it disengages and I can maintain a steady speed.

Again, thats not what we are complaining about. It would be nice if disengage resulted in a regenless neutral but instead it goes into full EV regenerative braking which is not what anyone desired no matter its exactly what you get when you graft an ICE cruise control on an EV without doing the homework. The problem is that the trim and resume functions act far too aggressively.

The lack of smoothness and poor integration are most apparent when using the cruise control trim functions. +-1 MPH and +-5 MPH have far too much gain. The vehicle is too powerful for the large control inputs the CC applies. Add +1 MPH and the car jumps so hard it overcompensates and has to brake so as to only jump 1 MPH. A Mercedes-Benz with the exact same controls will accelerate so smoothly that you won't know when it starts or when it stops without studying the numbers displayed on the dash. You'll notice the +5 MPH but you won't notice when the acceleration stops. Disengage the CC on M-B the vehicle will slow but it won't slam you forward.

Resume from previous setting also accelerates too hard. The exact same problem as the +1 +5 MPH trim.

The Model S Cruise Control is half baked. The basics are there but it is not refined. 5.9 is better than 5.8.4 but my Prius was better. My ML320 is worlds better.

Prius didn't have a +-5 MPH switch. However you could click the +1 (5) times and it would buffer your inputs and smoothly bring you up 5 even 10 MPH. Steve Wozniak famously claimed this was a software flaw because the Prius CC could buffer clicks all the way up to its top speed of 104 MPH. You could get 40 or 50 clicks buffered.

 

[roblab]

Again, thats not what we are complaining about. It would be nice if disengage resulted in a regenless neutral but instead it goes into full EV regenerative braking which is not what anyone desired no matter its exactly what you get when you graft an ICE cruise control on an EV without doing the homework. The problem is that the trim and resume functions act far too aggressively.

The lack of smoothness and poor integration are most apparent when using the cruise control trim functions. +-1 MPH and +-5 MPH have far too much gain. The vehicle is too powerful for the large control inputs the CC applies. Add +1 MPH and the car jumps so hard it overcompensates and has to brake so as to only jump 1 MPH. A Mercedes-Benz with the exact same controls will accelerate so smoothly that you won't know when it starts or when it stops without studying the numbers displayed on the dash. You'll notice the +5 MPH but you won't notice when the acceleration stops. Disengage the CC on M-B the vehicle will slow but it won't slam you forward.

Resume from previous setting also accelerates too hard. The exact same problem as the +1 +5 MPH trim.

The Model S Cruise Control is half baked. The basics are there but it is not refined. 5.9 is better than 5.8.4 but my Prius was better. My ML320 is worlds better.

Prius didn't have a +-5 MPH switch. However you could click the +1 (5) times and it would buffer your inputs and smoothly bring you up 5 even 10 MPH. Steve Wozniak famously claimed this was a software flaw because the Prius CC could buffer clicks all the way up to its top speed of 104 MPH. You could get 40 or 50 clicks buffered.

See, obviously I never had a good cruise control. Never owned Mercedes CC, Never used Porsche, BMW. All I ever had was Toyota. Compared with that flawed experience, the Tesla is smooth, whether using the +/-1 or 5. It does not jump or "kick in", or toss one about when used. It gently slows or accelerates so that I don't feel it. I have never had my Model S jump forward, overshoot, and brake, to speed up one mile per hour. That's weird.

I realize that I have one of the first few cars off the factory production line, and some of those cars ended up having some so-called defects. That's probably what I got: A Cruise Control that works.

Maybe they will fix yours some day with another firmware version. I just want to put in here that not all Tesla cruise controls act the way you are describing. Unless it's just me and I can't tell smooth from jerky.

That's probably it.

 

[Tedkidd]

Again, thats not what we are complaining about. It would be nice if disengage resulted in a regenless neutral but instead it goes into full EV regenerative braking which is not what anyone desired no matter its exactly what you get when you graft an ICE cruise control on an EV without doing the homework. The problem is that the trim and resume functions act far too aggressively.

The lack of smoothness and poor integration are most apparent when using the cruise control trim functions. +-1 MPH and +-5 MPH have far too much gain. The vehicle is too powerful for the large control inputs the CC applies. Add +1 MPH and the car jumps so hard it overcompensates and has to brake so as to only jump 1 MPH. A Mercedes-Benz with the exact same controls will accelerate so smoothly that you won't know when it starts or when it stops without studying the numbers displayed on the dash. You'll notice the +5 MPH but you won't notice when the acceleration stops. Disengage the CC on M-B the vehicle will slow but it won't slam you forward.

Resume from previous setting also accelerates too hard. The exact same problem as the +1 +5 MPH trim.

The Model S Cruise Control is half baked. The basics are there but it is not refined. 5.9 is better than 5.8.4 but my Prius was better. My ML320 is worlds better.

Prius didn't have a +-5 MPH switch. However you could click the +1 (5) times and it would buffer your inputs and smoothly bring you up 5 even 10 MPH. Steve Wozniak famously claimed this was a software flaw because the Prius CC could buffer clicks all the way up to its top speed of 104 MPH. You could get 40 or 50 clicks buffered.

+1.

One of the nice things about cruise control is not having fo use your feet. I don't want to HAVE to put my foot on the gas pedal to slow down comfortably. Other cars you kill the cruise and they coast.

 

[ecarfan]

I just want to put in here that not all Tesla cruise controls act the way you are describing. Unless it's just me and I can't tell smooth from jerky.

It's not just you. Model S cruise control seems pretty smooth to me.

As with many things, different people have different subjective impressions of the same function. To some it's jerky, to others it's silky smooth.

 

[Ajrdu]

Again, thats not what we are complaining about. It would be nice if disengage resulted in a regenless neutral but instead it goes into full EV regenerative braking which is not what anyone desired no matter its exactly what you get when you graft an ICE cruise control on an EV without doing the homework. The problem is that the trim and resume functions act far too aggressively.

The lack of smoothness and poor integration are most apparent when using the cruise control trim functions. +-1 MPH and +-5 MPH have far too much gain. The vehicle is too powerful for the large control inputs the CC applies. Add +1 MPH and the car jumps so hard it overcompensates and has to brake so as to only jump 1 MPH. A Mercedes-Benz with the exact same controls will accelerate so smoothly that you won't know when it starts or when it stops without studying the numbers displayed on the dash. You'll notice the +5 MPH but you won't notice when the acceleration stops. Disengage the CC on M-B the vehicle will slow but it won't slam you forward.

Resume from previous setting also accelerates too hard. The exact same problem as the +1 +5 MPH trim.

The Model S Cruise Control is half baked. The basics are there but it is not refined. 5.9 is better than 5.8.4 but my Prius was better. My ML320 is worlds better.

Prius didn't have a +-5 MPH switch. However you could click the +1 (5) times and it would buffer your inputs and smoothly bring you up 5 even 10 MPH. Steve Wozniak famously claimed this was a software flaw because the Prius CC could buffer clicks all the way up to its top speed of 104 MPH. You could get 40 or 50 clicks buffered.

This. I drove my car from North Carolina to NYC and the cruise was a giant pain to disengage the entire time. My passengers always knew when it was turning off as there was always a DRAMATIC deceleration. If I used the stalk to accelerate 1 or 2 mph it would lunge forward to get the speed, briefly fall into regen, then settle. I owned a Mercedes with this very same steering column and cruise as well as several Porsches with their versions--all much smoother. ICE cars are just smoother because of their power delivery shortfalls. The Model S could benefit from some tailoring of the cruise control to its driveline advantages.

 

[Tedkidd]

Called cust service, think they may have made some over air fixes. Cc seems improved, does not shoot up so fast it drops to regen. Also, front door handle touch to present fixed (had to press back handles before. Service folks are awesome, helped me fix car even though it isn't mine.)

REGARDING PADDLES: VW has them:

"One cool driving feature available in the E-Golf is paddle-shifters (on the steering wheel) to control the level of regenerative braking. Dialing the regen up or down affects how quickly the car slows down without putting your foot on the brake. Slowing down faster—the motor-generator applies a grabbing action—means that more of the braking energy is used to recharge the battery pack. The net result is more range.The E-Golf offers four regenerative braking modes, designated as D1, D2, D3, and B. They progressively increase the amount of regenerative braking applied, ranging from a no-regeneration (or “coast”) mode in D1—to heavy simulated engine braking in B. Anything stronger than D1 illuminates the brake lights, the same way the lights would come on if you hit the brake pedal to warn drivers behind you."

http://www.plugincars.com/volkswagen-electric-e-golf-blue-e-motion

 

[jbcarioca]

... My passengers always knew when it was turning off as there was always a DRAMATIC deceleration. If I used the stalk to accelerate 1 or 2 mph it would lunge forward to get the speed, briefly fall into regen, then settle...

It took me a few weeks to learn how to handle this. A soft touch on the accelerator prior to disconnect will soon have you no longer encountering that surge. I agree that the chief difference is that ICE cars do have an inherent lag, not a large one, but just enough to make a disconnect less abrupt than in an electric. I had a conversation at a CHAdeMO station a few months ago with a Leaf owner who told me one of her adjustments was the instantaneous power. For sure electrics are different. I'll be interested to know if we must all adapt to that ourselves or whether Tesla can figure out a way to make a 'soft' disconnect. If they can, that might also reduce the abruptness of speed changes in TACC, where even a 1mph change makes a very brief abruptness if you're on a level road no wind conditions.

 

[swixo]

It's not just you. Model S cruise control seems pretty smooth to me.

As with many things, different people have different subjective impressions of the same function. To some it's jerky, to others it's silky smooth.

I love the TACC, use it all the time from full speed freeway cruise all the way down to stop and go congestion.

The adjustment profiles people refer to are different. Possibly those who are used to ICE cars that have no other way of
behaving but slow and smooth (sluggish) because of the nature of the car, don't like the more immediate reaction
an EV has for obvious reasons. I like it going into full regen when disconnecting. If I dont want that, then put your
foot on the accel a little and mod it down.

Different from the disconnect point - it would be nice if it didn't panic to get up to speed when a car in front
changes lanes away. Or seem to wait a long time to slow down when traffic in front is really decelerating.

I expect a lot of tweakage to this over time.

s

 

[N4HHE]

ICE cruise controls do not have an inherent lag. I've driven a few which were as bad as that on the Model S. Most ICE cruise controls are tuned by people who know their business and can write feedback control equations.

There is no excuse for the neck-snapping jump when one clicks a +1 MPH on the Model S. Updates the past year have mostly tamed the +5 MPH.

Also no excuse to be slammed into regeneration when the CC is disengaged with the control stalk. Especially considering as how Tesla has demonstrated the ability to disable or limit regeneration and bring it smoothly back for cold weather battery protection. Disengaging the CC puts the Model S into active braking with regeneration and that is nothing like the behavior of an ICE.

 

[ecarfan]

There is no excuse for the neck-snapping jump when one clicks a +1 MPH on the Model S...Also no excuse to be slammed into regeneration when the CC is disengaged with the control stalk.

LOL. "Neck snapping"? "Slammed"? Sounds like using the S cruise control is like the Space Mountain ride at Disneyland. I find the sensation of changing 1MPH barely perceptible and the regen upon disengagement gradual.

 

[Soolim]

Also no excuse to be slammed into regeneration when the CC is disengaged with the control stalk. Especially considering as how Tesla has demonstrated the ability to disable or limit regeneration and bring it smoothly back for cold weather battery protection. Disengaging the CC puts the Model S into active braking with regeneration and that is nothing like the behavior of an ICE.

The +1 and +5 trim works for me. However, when TACC disengage, MS should simply cruise down by removing power to the motor like an ICE, and without regen. Regen may light the brake light and annoy the car following you. It will be up to the driver to decide whether application of brake is needed or not. When driver do decide to apply brake, then both regen and brake may be applied.