Cruise Control unavailable, with a twist (loss of all driver assistance features too)

[krnshh]

Had a bug when activating TACC "Drive assistance features unavailable, contact Tesla service." Tesla figured it was due to a defect front camera and have replaced it. Collecting the car later today. Great free service.
Question is: As of now, all the service goes under 'Goodwill', but for how long will that be the case? Wondering if I should have bought the service package for the year. Service centre costs per hour are 1500NOK or 200$ as shown in the invoice. What have you guys chosen, gone ahead with the service package or not, and why? Tesla Norway told me it wasn't needed as such.

 

[JohnQ]

I expect that replacing the defective camera was covered under warranty and so it didn't matter whether you had a service plan or not. In the US, at least, the service plan simply gives you a discount for prepaying 4 years of annual service. Not sure if the Norwegian plan is different.

I planned to bring the car in annually for service anyway so the pre-purchase made sense for me. Others will argue that it's not necessary to do an annual since Tesla will cover problems under the warranty and that the service overpriced based on what your get. Maybe I'm just conditioned by the need for an annual inspection on aircraft.

 

[dadaleus]

Just saw the photos thread about this. I had this happen yesterday in Big Bear, California but I didn't take a pic. Wiping off the radar with a shammy I keep in the frunk and powering down the car then reactivating it fixed the issue.

 

[dhanson865]

Just saw the photos thread about this. I had this happen yesterday in Big Bear, California but I didn't take a pic. Wiping off the radar with a shammy I keep in the frunk and powering down the car then reactivating it fixed the issue.

I think this is the key image from that thread

strap or wedge a similar piece of thin transparent or translucent plastic over the radar and you will be fine. Bonus points if you can make it easily removed and replaced so you don't have to leave it on year round.

 

[ArtInCT]

I had mentioned the Volvo design of their front grill radar way back earlier in this thread. I have never had snow or ice negatively effect my XC60's adaptive cruise control due to this design. However, I have had a thick accumulation of salt and muck shut it down after a few hours on a wet and salty turnpike. This has happened about twice in the 4 years of ownership. I carry a small spray bottle of RAINX windshield spray in the XC60 for such occasions in the winter. I think the convex radar cover that Volvo has is superior to the concave Tesla design. My XC60 also has spritzers for the headlights and they probably should outfit one for the radar as well. Maybe the new XC90 has that. MotorTrend gave the new Volvo XC90 SUV of the Year award. I just love my XC60.

 

[Andyw2100]

I think this is the key image from that thread


strap or wedge a similar piece of thin transparent or translucent plastic over the radar and you will be fine. Bonus points if you can make it easily removed and replaced so you don't have to leave it on year round.

I would be reluctant to cover the radar unit with anything, for fear of somehow affecting its proper operation. If what you suggest is possible, with no negative impact on operation, Tesla should produce a piece to accomplish this that could easily be fit to the existing radar units.

 

[dhanson865]

I would be reluctant to cover the radar unit with anything, for fear of somehow affecting its proper operation. If what you suggest is possible, with no negative impact on operation, Tesla should produce a piece to accomplish this that could easily be fit to the existing radar units.

What materials are transparent to radar? Weatherproofing a radar gun | Physics Forums - The Fusion of Science and Community

Had a chance to test the materials this morning, to my surprise the detector continued working with all of them. The first test piece was 10mm 'armoured' clear acrylic normally used in the windows on yachts. The second was 6mm clear 'cast acrylic sheet' made by Altuglas and the final piece was 1mm Clear HIPS (high impact polystyrene).

What blocks GPS signals? Radar waves (specifically X,K, and Ka bands)? - Ars Technica OpenForum

Plastics and other materials can be all over the board when it comes to attenuation. The figure you're looking for is 'loss tangent'. Lower loss tangent == less loss == better signal strength.

Dielectric Constant, Strength, Loss Tangent - RF Cafe

To answer your original question: You should be just fine with a thin piece of just about any plastic, as long as nothing metallic is involved. Anything HDPE, LDPE, PC, or ABS should pose no problem.

Keep the plastic as thin as you can possibly get away with, and leave at least 1-2 inches of space between the plastic and the radar unit to avoid detuning the internal antennas.

So keep it thin, keep it carbon free and metal free, and keep it an inch or so in front of the radar.

 

[Andyw2100]

What materials are transparent to radar? Weatherproofing a radar gun | Physics Forums - The Fusion of Science and Community


What blocks GPS signals? Radar waves (specifically X,K, and Ka bands)? - Ars Technica OpenForum




So keep it thin, keep it carbon free and metal free, and keep it an inch or so in front of the radar.

My reticence to make something home-made isn't only based on fear of ACTUALLY affecting the radar unit in some negative way. I'd also be at least a little concerned that if something negative happened either Tesla or an insurance company or an attorney could argue that I modified my car in an unauthorized manner and thus was responsible (or absolved them of their responsibility) etc. If it really is a fairly simple process to come up with something that can be retrofitted, Tesla should provide it.

 

[dhanson865]

My reticence to make something home-made isn't only based on fear of ACTUALLY affecting the radar unit in some negative way. I'd also be at least a little concerned that if something negative happened either Tesla or an insurance company or an attorney could argue that I modified my car in an unauthorized manner and thus was responsible (or absolved them of their responsibility) etc. If it really is a fairly simple process to come up with something that can be retrofitted, Tesla should provide it.

Wow, have you never seen a grill blocking thread on a car forum? It's way more intrusive and done on hundreds of thousands of cars. I assure you if insurance or warranty was an issue for a modification like this we'd have known about it a long time ago.

2010 Prius Grill Blocking strategy | PriusChat

Grill block partial or full - EcoModder

are just two examples. You'll find similar threads for basically every car make on the planet that is driven in winter conditions.

Seriously, if you own the car you can put a little piece of transparent plastic in front of the radar unit and not worry about "authorization".

I'd love for Tesla to provide it but if they don't I wouldn't expect someone to avoid doing it themselves just because Tesla hasn't done it yet or won't do it.

 

[Andyw2100]

Wow, have you never seen a grill blocking thread on a car forum? It's way more intrusive and done on hundreds of thousands of cars. I assure you if insurance or warranty was an issue for a modification like this we'd have known about it a long time ago.

2010 Prius Grill Blocking strategy | PriusChat

Grill block partial or full - EcoModder

are just two examples. You'll find similar threads for basically every car make on the planet that is driven in winter conditions.

Seriously, if you own the car you can put a little piece of transparent plastic in front of the radar unit and not worry about "authorization".

Actually I hadn't, but that's because this is only the second car forum I've ever spent any time on, and the first I didn't spend nearly this much time on. I don't claim to be expert in this stuff. My concerns may well be overly conservative and unfounded.

But that doesn't change my feeling that if this is something that is pretty simple to accomplish, Tesla should just do it, to correct a flaw in the original design that is causing issues for many owners.

 

[dhanson865]

But that doesn't change my feeling that if this is something that is pretty simple to accomplish, Tesla should just do it, to correct a flaw in the original design that is causing issues for many owners.

Well I'd straight up ask my local service center first if I lived far enough north to care. Let them do the dirty work if they will. I mean whats the point of spending tens of thousands of dollars more on a luxury car if you can't get luxury service?

If they didn't do it right away I might even just put some industrial thickness cling wrap over the unit first just to make it easier to pull the snow/crud off. But it might not stick or might tear easily. You'd figure that out the first day you tried it.

Whatever I had on hand I'd find something near the right size and affix it with twist ties or zip ties or something so I could remove it easily with the expectation that I'd be getting something purpose built installed later.

 

[green1]

Considering how many people want to make this mod so as to go against Tesla's express instructions not to use AP in inclement weather (like EVERY cruise control ever made), Maybe this is in fact a superior design in that it forces people to not do something horribly dangerous...

 

[dhanson865]

Considering how many people want to make this mod so as to go against Tesla's express instructions not to use AP in inclement weather (like EVERY cruise control ever made), Maybe this is in fact a superior design in that it forces people to not do something horribly dangerous...

Have you never seen a road that is perfectly dry and clear covered with cars that have crud on the bumpers and grills?

Having a shield for the radar means as soon as you enter a clear road area you can turn on AP/TACC without having to get out of your car and clean the front of the car off.

Or do you not consider cross country trips part of the allure of auto pilot?

Last I checked the weather from the last state line I crossed isn't the weather where I'm at.

Heck I've seen cars with snow/ice packed in the grill days after the snow stopped. Why should someone have to detail clean the front of the car if there is a simple fix that keeps you from having to worry about it?

 

[Andyw2100]

Have you never seen a road that is perfectly dry and clear covered with cars that have crud on the bumpers and grills?

Having a shield for the radar means as soon as you enter a clear road area you can turn on AP/TACC without having to get out of your car and clean the front of the car off.

Or do you not consider cross country trips part of the allure of auto pilot?

Last I checked the weather from the last state line I crossed isn't the weather where I'm at.

Heck I've seen cars with snow/ice packed in the grill days after the snow stopped. Why should someone have to detail clean the front of the car if there is a simple fix that keeps you from having to worry about it?

In addition to these excellent points, when the radar is snow covered and unavailable we don't just lose cruise control functionality, but rather all driver assistance features, including lane keeping assist and auto high beam.

 

[green1]

In addition to these excellent points, when the radar is snow covered and unavailable we don't just lose cruise control functionality, but rather all driver assistance features, including lane keeping assist and auto high beam.

Lane keeping assist is useless on a snow covered roadway and is more false positives than anything. and auto-high beam does not use the radar, it uses the camera.

 

[ArtInCT]

Lane keeping assist is useless on a snow covered roadway and is more false positives than anything. and auto-high beam does not use the radar, it uses the camera.

What function uses various hardware sensors is NOT the point here green1. The point is that when the radar is deemed inoperative due to road drek, then the ENTIRE system goes offline including the little old auto-high beam.

This is one reason why Autopilot Features is not in my signature at this time.

 

[green1]

The point is that when the radar is deemed inoperative due to road drek, then the ENTIRE system goes offline including the little old auto-high beam.

You are mistaken. Auto High Beam still works when the radar does not.

 

[ArtInCT]

You are mistaken. Auto High Beam still works when the radar does not.

That is good to know. Thanks.

 

[dhanson865]

Lane keeping assist is useless on a snow covered roadway and is more false positives than anything. and auto-high beam does not use the radar, it uses the camera.

but as you have failed to acknowledge yet, the car can have snow on it when the road is clear.

 

[Andyw2100]

You are mistaken. Auto High Beam still works when the radar does not.

I haven't checked this out since I had the error message last winter. But the error message was "Driver assistance features disabled", or something close to that, and auto high beam is a driver assistance feature. So either something has changed, or the error message was wrong.