Crunch! Falcon Wing Doors fail to sense obstacle

[ohmman]

To those of you criticizing the OP's husband for not being "more careful" with the door, or saying that it's merely common sense to avoid obstructions, I most certainly hope you also live with these doors every day. Surely if you're willing to post your outspoken opinion about someone else's situation, you have firsthand daily experience with what caused it. No, regular doors don't count. No, hatchback/liftbacks don't count either. Only those with falcon wing doors on a Model X have a valid argument. I'm sorry, I'm usually not so accusatory, but some of the dismissiveness here is really disappointing.

Normal doors: You're in control. You open and close them. You stop when there are obstructions. There is one hinge.
Hatchback/liftback: You are behind the car, you can see what's going on. You might pop it from inside the car, but you can tell your clearance because there is one hinge.
Falcon Wing Doors: They are passenger doors. Passengers of all sorts get in and out of them, and shouldn't be told when they can and cannot open them. They shouldn't have to be aware of every situation. There are double hinges, and the door swing varies based on obstructions. This complicates how you can assess the actual physical danger of the doors hitting anything.

Let me say another thing: People say things like, "they're great for kids." Do those same people think that kids are going to be checking for all obstructions?

My falcon wing doors (yes, I live with them every day) have been fine. They've detected obstructions. I've had good success. But I would never, ever think of saying things like "use common sense" or "not take responsibility for our own actions". Please be better participants in this forum.

 

[Todd Burch]

Hatch and doors don't have sensor that are suppose to prevent this very thing from occurring. If we use this logic then why even bother putting the sensor in the FWD. Just make the user responsible for monitoring the door in every situation. That is what a lot of people seem to be suggesting in this thread.

Yep, I knew someone was going to mention that. The presence of sensors does not abdicate the operator from ensuring safe operation, as indicated in the manual. The flaw in your reasoning is that the sensors are not supposed to prevent this very thing from occurring--as indicated in excerpts from the manual already posted.

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[Drivin]

@Drivin I want to know if you actually own a Model x or not. How can you dislike my answer which i got from a SC manager? Do you have anything better to say or a better solution to solve this problem better than someone who worked for Tesla for more than 5 years and led a team of 50 electrical technicians? Please educate me! I am confused.... And yeah, i get pretty mad when i get dislikes for providing useful information!

Sorry
I disliked what the answer from the SC is, not that you posted it.

 

[Todd Burch]

To those of you criticizing the OP's husband for not being "more careful" with the door, or saying that it's merely common sense to avoid obstructions, I most certainly hope you also live with these doors every day.

It sounds like you're referring to my post. You should read it again, more carefully. I explicitly mentioned that accidents happen and didn't criticize the OP's husband. I criticized those who believe the accident was the fault of the manufacturer.

The presence of sensors does not abdicate responsibility. Model S has parking sensors used in summon, and the manual indicates they may not see certain objects. Does that mean that if my car runs into a bicycle in my garage during summon that it's Tesla's fault? No, because they explicitly outline that risk in the operating manual. Just as this risk with the falcon wing doors is also outlined in the manual.

 

[Drivin]

There's also a thing called a warranty of merchantability (or perhaps an implied warranty of fitness would be more accurate?), whereby a company makes certain representations about its product on which consumers have to rely. One of those representations is Tesla's statements and demonstrations of the falcon wing doors, showing how well they avoid hitting obstructions without any human intervention. While Tesla may have some legal liability covered by the wording in its manual,!

If by "some" you mean "all" than I agree with you.

I would be surprised if they ever said the doors will avoid any and all obstructions and even if they did, RTM

 

[Todd Burch]

Hatch and doors don't have sensor that are suppose to prevent this very thing from occurring.

The manual indicates the exact opposite of the bolded portion of your statement. It explicitly says the sensors *do not* always prevent this sort of thing from happening.

 

[hill]

Seems like a significant oversight that Tesla wouldn't have expected parking lots to have diagonal spaces under straight beams.

Also, the analogies some are making to other damage (opening your door into a post, having the wind blow open your door into a bush, having your laptop break because you downloaded a virus) are poor examples, because in each case there was no expectation that that the car/laptop would prevent such damage, and all of that damage is manual (i.e., the owner had to physically open the door or click a link to download a virus).

But with the falcon wing doors, because they open from the inside electronically, and Elon has demonstrated many times how well the doors avoid obstacles, there's a reasonable expectation that the doors won't open into large obstacles, even when they're at an angle.

Product liability laws put a big burden on manufacturers. If it's foreseeable a 450lb person will use the chair you manufacture as a step stool - it darn well better not break apart & injure fatso upon his/her stupid use. so what happens when a little kid is climbing on top of the X & a kid inside opens the door . . . foreseeable?

 

[Todd Burch]

There's also a thing called a warranty of merchantability (or perhaps an implied warranty of fitness would be more accurate?), whereby a company makes certain representations about its product on which consumers have to rely. One of those representations is Tesla's statements and demonstrations of the falcon wing doors, showing how well they avoid hitting obstructions without any human intervention.

Showing that a sensor prevents a door from hitting an adjacent car is very different from claiming that the sensors will prevent the door from hitting anything at all times.

 

[K-MTG]

I've got 2.5 more weeks before I give my one month review of the car, including the doors.

Looking forward to it!

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

That having been said, the doofus who actually opened that door (my husband, who has gone into hiding) is definitely going to pay for it, whether it was his fault or Tesla's fault.

Poor doofus.

 

[Skotty]

I don't suppose the X doors have a manual mode? Maybe they should add that. What I mean is a mode where the electric motors provide assist to sort of give the door a neutral buoyancy, but you either have to move the door by hand or have some sort of up/down push buttons somewhere (the fob probably). So if you are in a tight garage, you can go to manual mode, get out of the car, and observe and control the doors as they open or close.

To simplify things with the dual hinge, the hinging motion could still be automatic control; the user would just control the open/close movement.

 

[Drivin]

. But I would never, ever think of saying things like "use common sense" or "not take responsibility for our own actions". Please be better participants in this forum.

Sure! Just like people use autopilot without monitoring what the car is doing are also being responsible and using common sense.

If you depend too much on new technology, well. Good luck with that.

People shouldn't be responsible.

We have always been at war with Eurasia.

Hail hydra!

 

[ModelXBoy]

I think i found a solution for this problem. Are you ready?????

USE FWD UNBRELLA MODE AT ALL TIME!!!

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

I think Tesla is going to find itself in a bind with these doors, and they know it. Ever since the X was launched it was really about the doors, and the technology within them. They proudly showed the doors opening in tight spaces, always stopping before hitting an obstacle, they were practically magical.

(Then I wrote a bunch of snippy stuff, thought better of it, and deleted it before even posting.)

I hope that the door tech can be improved so that owners can learn to trust and enjoy them, and remember, do not use your Bio-Hazard air filtration to drive through real bio-hazards, just cow pastures and the like.

 

[ohmman]

It sounds like you're referring to my post. You should read it again, more carefully. I explicitly mentioned that accidents happen and didn't criticize the OP's husband. I criticized those who believe the accident was the fault of the manufacturer.

The presence of sensors does not abdicate responsibility. Model S has parking sensors used in summon, and the manual indicates they may not see certain objects. Does that mean that if my car runs into a bicycle in my garage during summon that it's Tesla's fault? No, because they explicitly outline that risk in the operating manual. Just as this risk with the falcon wing doors is also outlined in the manual.

Yours was one of the posts to which I was referring, yes. If the responsibility lies with the owner, then your assertion by definition is that they're responsible for the accident, right? If so, then I'm not sure how to dissect the point you're trying to make.

Summon isn't a door opening. The other analogies provided in this thread also are not equivalent to opening a door. This is something that happens repeatedly throughout the day, in some cases just as often as changing the car from park to drive or vice versa.

The hard thing about these doors is that you can't open them manually - they're completely automated, and as I mentioned, they open in different patterns depending on the sensed surroundings. Knowing what they're going to do isn't trivial. It's reasonable to expect they'd stop for a barrier on the ceiling. If it wasn't, I'd never be able to open them at home.

I have a problem with my automated front swing doors as well. I've left "auto open" turned off since I took delivery. However, the door is still electrically actuated. When I'm parallel parked and opening the door, a manual door can be cracked. This door wants to keep opening. As my wife says, "sometimes you have to fight it". And that's on a door that you're holding and controlling. Passengers (including children and people unfamiliar with Teslas) don't have this luxury.

I think that because of the fully automated aspect of this door, the manufacturer does bear some responsibility. It's not trivial to assess what you're suggesting the passenger assess. The expectation is that the door works in parking garages - if they were between Mad Max style vehicles, I might feel differently.

I'm not a black and white only kind of guy. But I want to think that if you think the owner has the full responsibility, and these kinds of accidents happen, then you also have to think the doors are a bad design. On the surface that seems like a really unfair assessment but I don't know how else to reconcile it.

 

[ohmman]

Getting back to factual and more important things, @FoxXxy - what firmware revision are you on? Might be worth tracking any changes to the sensor and door dynamics.

 

[Chopr147]

I find it simply amazing on some of these forums where people are so perfect as to have never made a mistake

 

[Todd Burch]

Yours was one of the posts to which I was referring, yes. If the responsibility lies with the owner, then your assertion by definition is that they're responsible for the accident, right?

Yes.

If so, then I'm not sure how to dissect the point you're trying to make.

To be clear, the point I'm making is that while an unfortunate accident, the accident is the fault of the person operating the door.

Summon isn't a door opening.

Neither is a chicken. My point was that the Model S has sensors as well, but that doesn't mean the car will never run into anything. The manual clearly indicates the sensors may not see things like a bicycle. Just as the Model X manual indicates there are scenarios in which its sensors won't be effective. In both cases, it is the operator's responsibility to intervene if an accident is about to occur. Surely you see the analogy now?

The other analogies provided in this thread also are not equivalent to opening a door. This is something that happens repeatedly throughout the day, in some cases just as often as changing the car from park to drive or vice versa.

True, but irrelevant to the point I'm making.

The hard thing about these doors is that you can't open them manually - they're completely automated, and as I mentioned, they open in different patterns depending on the sensed surroundings.

Except that you can stop them from opening further by pressing the button, right?

I can open the hatch of my S from the touchscreen, in the driver's seat. But if I'm in the garage, with the garage door closed, I can only open the hatch partway before it would hit the garage. In these scenarios, I actually go to the hatch and press the button to manually start and stop it before it gets too close to hitting the garage door.

As for the design, I wouldn't call it good or bad. I'd call it unique. Like the door handles on the S. They are a unique feature that set the car apart, but that comes with positives and negatives. Obviously an actuated door handle is less reliable inherently than a manual one. That's the negative. On the other hand, it has some wow factor and uniqueness, which is a plus.

I view the falcon wing doors the same way. They are unique and have certain benefits, but they also require unique care in certain circumstances.

 

[Martin VanB]

If it makes any difference I parked my Lexus truck differently in my garage last summer, opened the liftgate from the inside and scratched the liftgate against automatic the garage door opener metal chain pull thing ( not sure what the technical name is). Either way I was pretty upset at what happened and the gouge was pretty deep. Had to get it fixed but they did not get rid of the mark completely. They painted it pretty good but the plastic piece was not worth fixing. It bother me but now I am used to it. I will trade this truck in for my Model X and hopefully i won't ding the doors. I hate door dingers and I am worried I will get them at the office because the parking spaces are pretty tight. I am sorry to see you damaged your Model X.

What I am trying to say is this stuff happens. I would hate if it happened to me so thanks for posting because now I can watch out for it.

 

[Pollux]

@FoxXxy thanks for sharing. Bummer of an experience, but educational and interesting for the rest of us.

Thanks,
Alan