Current Ads selling Model 3 Reservations...anyone else seen them?

[HankLloydRight]

I am a Model S owner and have had a Model 3 reservation since day one. If they were to allow another person to register my reserved Model 3, then that person would have received an unfair advantage as it relates to delivery times (me being a current owner gives me an earlier delivery date). How are other reservation holders going to feel about somebody stepping in front of them in line?

But that's one car sold, regardless of *who* it's sold to. So the reservation line isn't changed at all.

then that person would have received an unfair advantage as it relates to delivery times (me being a current owner gives me an earlier delivery date)

Yes, they get the advantage, but you're also losing the same advantage - so it's a zero-sum-game.

My step-daughter about to graduate college is not an existing owner. If she uses my reservation to get an M3, is that giving her an "unfair advantage"? I don't see how that's any different than someone giving their reservation to someone else to register the car.

How are other reservation holders going to feel about somebody stepping in front of them in line?

Nobody is stepping in front of anyone else. Two people are just swapping the same location. Everyone's position in the line remains unchanged.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Surely, the immigration ban rules are the Bible for this?!

Couldn't resist...

I thought about going there... so thanks.

 

[stan23]

There's like 50 of these ads here in our local SF Bay Area CL. I have a feeling most of these guys got in on the reservation early in order to scalp it later. I guess that joke will be on them.

 

[HankLloydRight]

BTW, full disclaimer: I am not selling my M3 reservation. My wife will probably take it.

 

[Big Dog]

But this guy sounds like he's willing to register it in his name and then sell it.

My state, California, would love that deal as the state can collect sales tax x2.

But that's not a sustainable policy.

Why not?

They have to allow certain exceptions.

Perhaps for immediate family members living in the same household, but other than that?

 

[HankLloydRight]

Perhaps for immediate family members living in the same household, but other than that?

Again, my daughter lives somewhere else, and has a different name. How deep are the line people (Delivery Associates) going to dig to prove/disprove a familial relationship? With the sheer number of M3s to deliver and move, they're more concerned about cranking them out than proving a family relationship to actually deny selling someone a car.

Just play it out.. what are they going to say? Nope, we're not going to sell this car to you, we're going to keep your $1000 deposit, and now we're stuck with an inventory car. Really, that's not what's going to happen. They're going to be selling and delivering as many cars as humanly possible, because you know that the delivery centers will be phenomenally understaffed and over-worked.

 

[3Victoria]

Again, my daughter lives somewhere else, and has a different name. How deep are the line people (Delivery Associates) going to dig to prove/disprove a familial relationship? With the sheer number of M3s to deliver and move, they're more concerned about cranking them out than proving a family relationship to actually deny selling someone a car.

Just play it out.. what are they going to say? Nope, we're not going to sell this car to you, we're going to keep your $1000 deposit, and now we're stuck with an inventory car. Really, that's not what's going to happen. They're going to be selling and delivering as many cars as humanly possible, because you know that the delivery centers will be phenomenally understaffed and over-worked.

They say no. Its up to you to prove familial relationship. Maybe even that's unexceptable. They certaunly won't be 'stuck' with an inventory car with 400,000 people in line. If you don't want the car, just give up your reservation.

 

[siggyfreud]

First registered party, yes.

So assuming the original person had to buy and register, and then transfer ownership, the second person would effectively be paying up to 13.5k more for the car.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Again, my daughter lives somewhere else, and has a different name. How deep are the line people (Delivery Associates) going to dig to prove/disprove a familial relationship? With the sheer number of M3s to deliver and move, they're more concerned about cranking them out than proving a family relationship to actually deny selling someone a car.

Just play it out.. what are they going to say? Nope, we're not going to sell this car to you, we're going to keep your $1000 deposit, and now we're stuck with an inventory car. Really, that's not what's going to happen. They're going to be selling and delivering as many cars as humanly possible, because you know that the delivery centers will be phenomenally understaffed and over-worked.

That's only true if they don't have 400k other people waiting in line. Perhaps they will loosen near the end of the list, but not seeing much pressure in them cancelling an order when there's so many people ordering.

They have also purposefully reduced the available configurations, so it's unlikely there will be a truly orphaned vehicle.

 

[GoTslaGo]

Again, my daughter lives somewhere else, and has a different name. How deep are the line people (Delivery Associates) going to dig to prove/disprove a familial relationship? With the sheer number of M3s to deliver and move, they're more concerned about cranking them out than proving a family relationship to actually deny selling someone a car.

Just play it out.. what are they going to say? Nope, we're not going to sell this car to you, we're going to keep your $1000 deposit, and now we're stuck with an inventory car. Really, that's not what's going to happen. They're going to be selling and delivering as many cars as humanly possible, because you know that the delivery centers will be phenomenally understaffed and over-worked.

I might be going through the same issue. I have a reservation for a model 3. I discussed it with my brother and we decided that if FSD comes to fruition we could buy a model 3 together for our parents. He lives on the other coast.

So who would get the tax credit (if available by the time we order)? Presumably we would both be on the title, and ultimately it would be likely that neither of us "drives" it. Although since my folks live near me, I could "technically" be the driver.

Furthermore he lives in a state with EV incentives... this would likely be an easy one, since I am the reservation holder... Tesla would follow the EV rules for my state, not his.

So in the end i do not think it would be easy or potentially even reasonable to do this type of policing of selling Model 3s. For their employees it makes sense, but for current Tesla owners I think it would be really difficult for them to limit it and/or prevent immediate "resale".

As for the question of having my folks be on the title with me, this would likely be a gift from us two to them to allow them to stay mobile. So no money from them will be contributed.

Obviously if FSD takes a long time to implement, this issue may be moot.

 

[Big Dog]

Just play it out.. what are they going to say? Nope, we're not going to sell this car to you, we're going to keep your $1000 deposit, and now we're stuck with an inventory car.

Ok, I'll play.

Yes, we definitely will sell a car to YOU (or your spouse). If you'd like to purchase it and give it to your daughter, feel free. If you'd like to purchase and resell it to you daughter, have at it. (your state may hit you for double sales tax, but...)

Your car can be configured starting on xx date. Should you choose not to configure, you can let the reservation ride, or we will refund your $1k. ("we're going to keep your $1000 deposit" is a strawman and weakens your argument, since Telsa has readily refunded anyone who asked.)

We have 399,000 other reservations to get thru, so no, we will not be stuck with an inventory car. We'll just go to the next in line. Should your daughter (who lives somewhere else) like to purchase, she can sign up on the following website: ....

The question, of course, is what if you ask to share title, your name and your daughters upon purchase. Then, you remove your name after she takes the keys. Hmmmmmm.

Simple for now. Of course it could change over time, but Elon would receive a yuuuuge backlash and bad PR if he changes his 'rules' now to enable scalpers. (Not saying that you are a scalper, but the impact is the same.) It would be a bad bidness decision.

edited to add: The deposit form (online) clearly said that all reservations were not transferable without prior written permission from Tesla. That doesn't mean that they won't approve a transfer to an immediate family member (however defined and whatever proof that they may require), but they clearly do not have to.

 

[pl804]

When I placed my reservation on Day 1, I asked whether the purchase had to be in my name, or if someone else could use it. They said I could let family members use it.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Simple for now. Of course it could change over time, but Elon would receive a yuuuuge backlash and bad PR if he changes his 'rules' now to enable scalpers. (Not saying that you are a scalper, but the impact is the same.) It would be a bad bidness decision.

I'm not saying they should enable scalpers. It's just that it becomes an extremely difficult thing to police for people (typically younger kids) on the front lines doing the actual deliveries. Are they going to ask me to produce my marriage license to "prove" my step-daughter is my step-daughter? Of course, I'm not going to buy the car and just give it to her - -she's going to buy and register it herself (and claim the tax credit, if available). So then the onus of "proof" is some document I give to the sales associate. Now the 20-something Delivery associate is responsible for confirming the validity of a marriage license from some other state or jurisdiction? Its just NEVER going to get to that point/level of scrutiny. They're in the business to sell cars, not be the "reservation police".

I'm also not saying that Elon changes the rules. But I'm a REALIST, not a THEORIST. I look at what's ACTUALLY going to happen, not what "should" happen under perfect circumstances, or what people "think" should happen. Easily HALF of what Elon spouts out doesn't happen or is delayed or just vaporware ("FSD"???). There's not going to be a PR problem if some people buy M3s for family members or even just "friends". They just won't have the staff to enforce that. Nobody is going to have to "prove" anything. If they get their money and move a car off the lot, that's what's going to count in the end.

As long as the delivery people don't detect real scalping (like in the OP example of "selling" a reservation, and two unrelated and geographically separate people are buying the car), then the rest of the edge scenarios are going to just pass by totally unimpeeded. Tesla is in the business and has a fiduciary responsibility to SELL CARS. Not police a list of reservations just to make sure everyone "follows the rules". The one guy that Elon kicked out of the MX reservation line had published a scathing review of Tesla and really pissed off Elon. Elon and Tesla doesn't have the time or the staff to police 400,000 reservations to make sure that the cars are sold to the EXACT person holding the reservation.

But it doesn't make sense to resolve this now. Time well obviously tell what will actually happen when Tesla starts selling cars to reservation holders. I seriously doubt there will be any real due-dilligence at all to match the reservation holder to the buyer of the car beyond a cursory survey question or form to fill out.

 

[voip-ninja]

There shouldn't be any surprise that people are trying to game the system for their own benefit. Just look at the crap that goes on in China with black market import of iPhones from Thailand.

What seems like a ridiculous PITA to you or me looks like an opportunity to someone unscrupulous who is willing to put in 20-30 hours of work and do a lot of lying to try to net a few grand.

 

[adhoc]

I buy season tickets each year for my mlb team.
I buy them well in advance of the season, paying 8 months before the first pitch.
every other person willing to purchase under those terms could make the same purchase.
I don't have the desire to attend 81 games each year, so I sell what I don't want on stubhub.
sometimes I make money on the seats I don't want, sometimes I lose money?
so, am I a scalper because I took the time to arrange for these seats,
knowing I'm going to sell those which I don't desire,
and I make that decision based upon my timing.

now, my mlb team scuks, and I probably could get the seats I want
by not pre purchasing, buying only when I knew exactly what I desire.
again, is this any different in making a deposit based upon a possible desire?

we are over a year in making these deposits, h3ll I don't agree with MS owners
going ahead of any deposit holders, but in the end, sh*t happens.
do previous iphone owners get first delivery of the next generation?

a popular boat builder got uncomfortable with the success of their 43' sport fisher.
so the upped the pre order deposit from 10% to 25% orders doubled, they increased
the deposit many times eventually ended up at 50% to quell speculation, but never
did they decide who's name went on title, everybody won

 

[HankLloydRight]

I thought of a couple more legitimate examples examples of the reservation holder being different from the registered buyer:

-- My brother is 10 years younger than me and has a different last name (my mom remarried). He is, without question, "immediate family". How would I "prove" that? I'd need to bring in my birth parents marriage license from the 50's.. their divorce agreement from the 70's.. (to prove I'm her son) and also her second marriage license or my brother's birth certificate to actually prove that he is my brother. Do you really think Chad the 28 y.o. Delivery Associate is going to go through all that just to put down my brother's name on the registration?

-- What about same-sex couples that may or may not be in a civil union or marriage? Should Tesla deny ownership to one partner when the reservation was made in the other partner's name? (For instance, say only one partner will have the tax liability to claim the tax credit in 2018, but in 2016, the other partner made the M3 reservation.)

With just two common examples, I think it's clear how much of a grey area this will be, and how hard it will be for Tesla to actually enforce that the reservation holder be the same as the buyer. The only thing I can see happening is that Tesla requires that both parties be physically present at delivery. Now that might add a hardship to a few legitimate reservation holders/buyers, but I think it's about the only feasible thing Tesla can do to curtail the scalpers.

 

[trm2]

They can easily say reservation holder or someone residing in the same house. That is easy to prove with documents even Chad can understand. lol

 

[Zaphod]

I heard this Nigerian prince had a couple Model 3 reservation he wanted to get rid of. Unfortunately he is in prison and won't be able to use them, but will give them away if you help him with bail money. Once he gets out, he will repay you the money and give you the Model 3. Seems pretty legit to me....

 

[HankLloydRight]

They can easily say reservation holder or someone residing in the same house.

I agree that's an easier method to validate, even for Chad. But my daughter won't be living in the same house when she graduates college. How would that work then? Or like above, buying a car for your parents?

 

[trm2]

I agree that's an easier method to validate, even for Chad. But my daughter won't be living in the same house when she graduates college. How would that work then? Or like above, buying a car for your parents?

IF they went that way, your daughter isn't living in the same house and you don't want it? Next in line. The specific scenario about buying one for your parents above involves FSD which is years out, if ever, so reservations with a huge backlog won't apply.