Cybertruck design/features

[coleAK]

There are lots of things to service in Tesla's.

here is a short list of the things on the 3 S's we have owned:

Door handles (X8) - 6 of 8 covered by Telsa
Air shock (X2) - not covered by Tesla
MCU's (X2) - not covered by Tesla
Air suspension sensors (X1)
Adjustable rear camber links (cause Tesla was too cheap to design them in), eating rear tires like a teenager eats donuts (fixed)
12 Volt battery (X4)
HEPA Filter (X2)
Tires (X40) over 200K on 3 cars, so about every 20K
Front Windshield glass (X2)
Windshield sprayer (X1)
Windshield wipers (X10)
Brake Fluid (cant remember how many ounces)
Headlight (2016), (X4) - the damn eyebrow LED is blown again.. out of warranty now.. so add another headlight assembly
Trim issues (about 18 trips)
Leather issues (Tesla told me to go F myself)
Drive Unit (replaced before they figured out a wire was loose and causing the short code) (X1)
Half Shafts (X3), starting clicking again after 5K (out of warranty now)
lower front aft control arm catastrophic failure (X2) - not covered by Tesla
Steering bracket bolts seared off, fixed under recall warranty
21 inch wheels (X3) - cracked
19 inch wheels (X1) - cracked
Towed (flatbed) to dealer 3 times (or about once per vehicle during its life)

Other than that they are maintenance "free" with about $20k freed from my wallet with a large portion of that being the MCU's, that Tesla failed to cover.

Much of this is wear and tear. Cracked rims, tires, windshield glass, windshield wipers? Why are you doing these things at Tesla?

Air suspension and large rims just suck. I hate it that both have become sort of an consumer demand/industry standard. For performance A car the size of a S shouldn’t have any larger then a 17-18” rim. Air suspension also is an unnecessary complexity, hydraulic and springs are better and more reliable. Tesla uses the bosch system MB, jeep, Ram uses.

I canceled my Rivian order since it has air springs and the smaller rims you can put on are 20”. I’m concerned the CT will have the same issue. Trucks shouldn’t ever have over an 18” rim, and air suspension sucks.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Much of this is wear and tear. Cracked rims, tires, windshield glass, windshield wipers? Why are you doing these things at Tesla?

Air suspension and large rims just suck. I hate it that both have become sort of an consumer demand/industry standard. For performance A car the size of a S shouldn’t have any larger then a 17-18” rim. Air suspension also is an unnecessary complexity, hydraulic and springs are better and more reliable. Tesla uses the bosch system MB, jeep, Ram uses.

I canceled my Rivian order since it has air springs and the smaller rims you can put on are 20”. I’m concerned the CT will have the same issue. Trucks shouldn’t ever have over an 18” rim, and air suspension sucks.

Amen brother, I have 16's on my truck, and only ride on 19's on Tesla for this exact reason... 21+ rims are like high heels, they reduce performance, cost more, have more issues and add weight to an already heavy car... Tesla loves them due to the profit..... everytime I see a Model S with them I laugh at the idiot who fell for this marketing trick..

 

[israndy]

I use my 18” TM3 wheels with snow tires in winter and soak up the potholes pretty good. In the summer I use my 19” thinner tires that let me be more squirrelly racing the car around. And the silver looks better with the red paint

 

[Suns_PSD]

If you plan on driving the wheels off it, I’m guessing you are talking 150k-200k+ miles. At a $50k F150 compared to a $80k F150e you will make up that $30k in fuel (at current prices) and PM in ~60k miles. At 200k miles operating cost of a ICE $50k f150 you could probably buy two F150e’s.

I’ve gotten to the point where I’m at $12 in fuel to drive my LX570 round trip to Costco. In my Tesla is it $0 (I have solar) even if I paid rack rate for the electricity it would be $0.10. Also have to consider PM. EVs have no oil changes, no transmission, no transfer cases, a very simple cooling system. 8 years in teslas and my PM has consisted of 4 bottles of brake fluid, I do a flush every 2 years. Same time in my LX looking at my log book (do my own work). 16 oil changes, 4 brake flushes, 4 f/r diff fluid changed, 4 transfer case fluid changes, 2 AT fluid exchange, 1 coolant exchange, 2 ACH fluid exchanges. Ballpark this was ~$3k just in fluids/filters/crush washers. Would have been $10-15k if I had it all done at the dealer, here in Alaska closer to $15k.

I like that you track these well, but your numbers are pretty far off of my experiences/ calculations.

Even at today's record high diesel prices my GMC Canyon 4x4 lifted diesel (lifetime 29 mpg average) would only cost me $25K to fuel for 140K miles (this is 10 years of driving for me). In reality my costs have been about half that because this is a historic bump in fuel prices and doesn't accurately reflect my actual 5 year operating costs.
Furthermore an EV truck that is equivalent to it in capability, isn't free to charge for 140K miles. Less expensive for certain, but not free. especially if you are traveling.

Maintenance consist of a 6 quart synthetic oil change I do myself every 10K miles, or about $100/ year.

Tires last 60K miles, registration fees are inexpensive, insurance is literally half of what it cost to insure any EV. From the quotes I've seen insurance on EVs is about an extra 1K- 1.5K extra per year, that's 10-15K extra in additional insurance costs over 10 years, or 40- 60% of my total diesel fuel costs covered just by the insurance savings.

There is also the 'lost opportunity' meaning that if you spend say an extra $30K on an EV with the idea that some day you will get your money back in fuel savings, how much would that $30K have been if it earned 10% in the stock market over that 10 year period? That $30K will be $82K in 10 years. So now you need to save $82K in fuel just to break even with the EV.

I very much like EVs, have added 2 EV power sources to my new home being built, and will buy EVs in the future. But the economic argument is a bit harder to justify unless I'm already buying a brand new $80K car anyways.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Much of this is wear and tear. Cracked rims, tires, windshield glass, windshield wipers? Why are you doing these things at Tesla?

Air suspension and large rims just suck. I hate it that both have become sort of an consumer demand/industry standard. For performance A car the size of a S shouldn’t have any larger then a 17-18” rim. Air suspension also is an unnecessary complexity, hydraulic and springs are better and more reliable. Tesla uses the bosch system MB, jeep, Ram uses.

I canceled my Rivian order since it has air springs and the smaller rims you can put on are 20”. I’m concerned the CT will have the same issue. Trucks shouldn’t ever have over an 18” rim, and air suspension sucks.

Large rims are indeed a performance negative in every regard.

However air suspension is the way literally every heavy duty semi is built. It's reliable, affordable, and works very well.

For a passenger pickup that is lightly loaded with air most of the time, air rear suspension is 100% the way to go. You get all the stability and correct ride height when loaded, but good ride quality when empty.

 

[coleAK]

I like that you track these well, but your numbers are pretty far off of my experiences/ calculations.

Even at today's record high diesel prices my GMC Canyon 4x4 lifted diesel (lifetime 29 mpg average) would only cost me $25K to fuel for 140K miles (this is 10 years of driving for me). In reality my costs have been about half that because this is a historic bump in fuel prices and doesn't accurately reflect my actual 5 year operating costs.
Furthermore an EV truck that is equivalent to it in capability, isn't free to charge for 140K miles. Less expensive for certain, but not free. especially if you are traveling.

Maintenance consist of a 6 quart synthetic oil change I do myself every 10K miles, or about $100/ year.

Tires last 60K miles, registration fees are inexpensive, insurance is literally half of what it cost to insure any EV. From the quotes I've seen insurance on EVs is about an extra 1K- 1.5K extra per year, that's 10-15K extra in additional insurance costs over 10 years, or 40- 60% of my total diesel fuel costs covered just by the insurance savings.

There is also the 'lost opportunity' meaning that if you spend say an extra $30K on an EV with the idea that some day you will get your money back in fuel savings, how much would that $30K have been if it earned 10% in the stock market over that 10 year period? That $30K will be $82K in 10 years. So now you need to save $82K in fuel just to break even with the EV.

I very much like EVs, have added 2 EV power sources to my new home being built, and will buy EVs in the future. But the economic argument is a bit harder to justify unless I'm already buying a brand new $80K car anyways.

I’m in Alaska so cost of everything tends to be more. I do almost all my own work on my LX570, can’t beat $5/hr at the auto hobby shop on base for a lift. I pay $80 every 5k miles for 7 quarts of oil. $350 for gear oil every 20k miles. For gas I’m at $5.35/gallon and get 11-12 mpg. For electricity I pay $0.22/kWh with no off peak. I have a >7kw solar system and ~half the year don’t have an electric bill.

With an EV truck I could charge for no additional cost when we camp at sites with hookups. I tow the camper 10-15k miles a summer if I could charge on camp sites for half of the low end miles I would save ~$3500-$4k a summer. That is equivalent to the cost of 2 weeks for us at our place in Hawaii.

In terms of insurance. With USAA my 2013 LX570 is 25% more my 2018 tesla, and the 2018 Tesla is $12 less a year then our 2004 Mercedes e-class.

 

[coleAK]

Large rims are indeed a performance negative in every regard.

However air suspension is the way literally every heavy duty semi is built. It's reliable, affordable, and works very well.

For a passenger pickup that is lightly loaded with air most of the time, air rear suspension is 100% the way to go. You get all the stability and correct ride height when loaded, but good ride quality when empty.

Semi’s have almost no travel/articulation. Many use air bags with leaf springs. Very different set up then air springs. For towing airbags with springs are great. Air springs like in the Rivian have many issues, the biggest is needing sag for compliance and there fore increasing spring rate with increases pressure. Raise them up and lose almost all articulation. That and tending to freeze from the inside when it is fairly cold, overheating under high travel rates, leaking over time,…

 

[ThomasD]

Ram has had a lot of issues with their air system especially in cold weather. There is even a class action lawsuit against Ram for these issues.

 

[coleAK]

Ram has had a lot of issues with their air system especially in cold weather. There is even a class action lawsuit against Ram for these issues.

And ram uses the same system as Jeep, Mercedes, and Tesla. They fail all winter here in Alaska when temps get below 0. Condensation develops inside then they freeze from the inside. My brother has a Jeep GC trailhawk that has spent a ton of time in the shop, leave him stranded all winter. Also he dosn’t ever put it in high mode since he loses all articulation.

 

[roblab]

Not quite sure why your cars have been so bad, but I've owned three Model Ses and a Model 3, with a total of over 250,000 miles on them. I had a door handle issue on my first car, fixed in five minutes, and never another issue with them. One inverter died but was replaced for free. Don't remember anything else at present. I wonder about why your wheels crack, and it makes me think you drive on very rough roads, or don't try to avoid holes. I've never needed any service on shocks, never replaced hepa filter (are you a smoker??) and I highly suspect Tesla did NOT tell you to F yourself though it appears you understand such language. It looks to me like you abuse your cars, that you drive them off road over rough, probably dirt roads with holes and rocks in them, at speed. If you can find a car that will stand up to such abuse, then you really ought to buy one of them, because Teslas are built for highway, freeway, and other paved road use, not off road or unpaved road use unless you slow down.

I get 40,000 miles on my tires, so there's a clue, and my 12-volt batteries last over 100,000 miles, or nearly 4 years. Needing that much brake fluid is also a clue as to how you drive, since many of us have learned to use regen and hardly touch our brakes.

I would guess that Teslas are not for you. Sounds like you need a Jeep, but I can imagine you'll have trouble with that, too.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I don't want to beat on the air suspension thing too much except to add that:
1) poorly designed air bag suspensions appear to be causing issues for Ram products, not the technology itself.
2) Any air system that bleeds off and takes in more air is going to have condensation and is therefore going to need at a minimum an air bleed off valve to rid itself of moisture (auto versions of these, called spit valves are common and cheap), but ideally an air dryer which obviously costs more and requires some maintenance.

Having driven 1/4 tons (that's what I call my 2 Canyons), 1/2 tons & 3/4 tons pickups for years, frankly they all ride harsh unless they are loaded quite heavy. I carry many things but most are relatively lightweight.

I own Peterbilts as well, all on Vocational air ride suspensions with 8.5" of travel, and the air ride rear suspensions all ride better empty, even though they are designed to manage an additional 15 tons, than my freakin' pickups.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Not quite sure why your cars have been so bad, but I've owned three Model Ses and a Model 3, with a total of over 250,000 miles on them. I had a door handle issue on my first car, fixed in five minutes, and never another issue with them. One inverter died but was replaced for free. Don't remember anything else at present. I wonder about why your wheels crack, and it makes me think you drive on very rough roads, or don't try to avoid holes. I've never needed any service on shocks, never replaced hepa filter (are you a smoker??) and I highly suspect Tesla did NOT tell you to F yourself though it appears you understand such language. It looks to me like you abuse your cars, that you drive them off road over rough, probably dirt roads with holes and rocks in them, at speed. If you can find a car that will stand up to such abuse, then you really ought to buy one of them, because Teslas are built for highway, freeway, and other paved road use, not off road or unpaved road use unless you slow down.

I get 40,000 miles on my tires, so there's a clue, and my 12-volt batteries last over 100,000 miles, or nearly 4 years. Needing that much brake fluid is also a clue as to how you drive, since many of us have learned to use regen and hardly touch our brakes.

I would guess that Teslas are not for you. Sounds like you need a Jeep, but I can imagine you'll have trouble with that, too.

Roads are brutal on any car around here (philly area). It's absurd how much money they take for road repairs, far more than neighboring states with similar miles of roads, and the roadways are awful.
When you see a Tesla around here, odds are the rims are scraped up. Back when the 3 initially came out, I saw one in a lot and took a pic. Brand new car and the edges of the rims were trashed on all 4 tires.

 

[Ogre]

Roads are brutal on any car around here (philly area). It's absurd how much money they take for road repairs, far more than neighboring states with similar miles of roads, and the roadways are awful.
When you see a Tesla around here, odds are the rims are scraped up. Back when the 3 initially came out, I saw one in a lot and took a pic. Brand new car and the edges of the rims were trashed on all 4 tires.
View attachment 803283

I learned pretty early on to avoid curbs because Tesla's rims are prone to curb rash, but you've taken it to the next level.

Shouldn't be a big problem with as much rubber as the Cybertruck has.

 

[Barklikeadog]

I learned pretty early on to avoid curbs because Tesla's rims are prone to curb rash, but you've taken it to the next level.

Shouldn't be a big problem with as much rubber as the Cybertruck has.

Can't critique the rubber. Drives me nuts the mall crawler tires and 20 22 inch rims on current pickups. Looking cool trumps capability and ride quality I guess

 

[Ogre]

Can't critique the rubber. Drives me nuts the mall crawler tires and 20 22 inch rims on current pickups. Looking cool trumps capability and ride quality I guess

Oh totally agree. Nothing grosser than a lifted truck with huge rims and little strips of rubber wrapped around them.

Where I'm going to take it, skinny rubber isn't going to cut it.

 

[coleAK]

I learned pretty early on to avoid curbs because Tesla's rims are prone to curb rash, but you've taken it to the next level.

Shouldn't be a big problem with as much rubber as the Cybertruck has.

All the pictures I’ve seen of the CT are on 20-22’s, so not that much rubber. Hopefully will be able to fit a 17 or 18 over the brakes.

 

[Brando]

Suspect Tesla will offer different tire/wheel sizes on CyberTruck.

Why??
- supply & cost
- different use cases -- RoboTaxis vs OffRoad vs Towing vs RV - you get the idea.
May just let the tire industry offer options or even Unplugged Performance ??

It will be interesting to watch and see how this develops.

 

[Ogre]

All the pictures I’ve seen of the CT are on 20-22’s, so not that much rubber. Hopefully will be able to fit a 17 or 18 over the brakes.

An upgrade to smaller wheels with more rubber would definitely be nice. I’m sure that’s a hit to range though.

It would be a tough choice to sacrifice range for better off-roading.

 

[coleAK]

An upgrade to smaller wheels with more rubber would definitely be nice. I’m sure that’s a hit to range though.

It would be a tough choice to sacrifice range for better off-roading.

I kept the original 20 inch rims that came with my LX 570. When I would do long trips pulling the camper I would switch thinking that they were more efficient than in the 17 inch rims I put on the first summer after I bought it new. It’s not an EV but I notice No difference at all between 33 inch LT AT tires on a 20 inch rim versus 33 inch LT AT tires on a 17 inch rim.

I think tread pattern will make a much larger difference in range then rim size.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I kept the original 20 inch rims that came with my LX 570. When I would do long trips pulling the camper I would switch thinking that they were more efficient than in the 17 inch rims I put on the first summer after I bought it new. It’s not an EV but I notice No difference at all between 33 inch LT AT tires on a 20 inch rim versus 33 inch LT AT tires on a 17 inch rim.

I think tread pattern will make a much larger difference in range then rim size.

Take it off-roading with the 20 inch rims and let us know how it goes.