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Not hardly.

500 is really 450, less degradation which means 420. Now remove 10% on the bottom end. Now we are at 380. So 380 divided by 2 is 190 miles each way.

Range is King.
Range is important but it isn’t what you said.

500 mile or 380 miles isn’t really that important, especially when you have super chargers. But none of that was what I was responding to. Straw man argument.

Yea. no. My MS charges at some thing like 34-40 MPH. 110 volt at 4 MPH is ridiculous slow.
the CT is vaporware. If they do built it and it really does have 500+ range, would will need a Tesla wall charger for any practical use.

False bro. False.
 
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But I don’t have to see. The model y or s or x already shows how rediculous your argument is.

You don’t need to be able to charge at more than 32 amps at home. Even if your EV had 1000 mile of range.
But the models you refer to are much more efficient than cybertruck will be. If they rate the other models around 240Wh/mi, cybertruck will probably be in the range of 400Wh/mi. So if you are charging at 26 mi/hr on a model Y (at 32 amps) turns into 15.6 mi/hr. If you come home at 6pm and plug in, you're only adding 187 miles back to your range over the next 12 hours. And if it's winter and you need to heat the cabin, that 187 miles turns into 130 miles of actual range very quickly.

The same people that get on the soapbox about how much range you actually need and charging speeds are the ones that also start talking about bullcrap like cabin heat and hills and headwinds when someone complains that they're only getting half of the range that was advertised. As if it's completely outside the realm of reasonable to expect even 200 miles of range when you were told you would get 326 on a long range Y. Oh but the gas car you are comparing to never gets the estimate either. Yeah, the gas car that is rated at 20mpg and gets 16 in bad conditions still goes 352 real world miles instead of 440 on a tank. Compare that with my model Y that is rated for 326 miles (which it never once has gotten, nor even said on the dash), when I picked it up day 1 a 100% charge was 312 miles. Now it's down 10 months later to about 288 miles. Now further reduce to 90% charge because that's what you're supposed to do to not throw the car away in 4 or 5 years, and the starting range is 263 miles. Is it winter? chop 40% off of that and you get 158 miles of actual range if you run it to zero.

So now take all of that and examine the cybertruck in the context you just said. Supercharging only works if you are in the range of ~10-70%. Past that it slows way down. So if we get a cybertruck that has 500 miles of range, only charge to 90%, so we start with 450, add some degradation and call it 425. Now assume it's winter and chop 30% off of the range (the one benefit to a less efficient EV with long range is less impact on range from heating the cabin). You end up with 300 actual miles of winter range between full (90%) charges, and you can only charge it at home 120 miles of actual range per night. Anyone with an hour long commute on the highway to and from work will not be able to keep up with a 32 amp charger.

If you coast in to your garage at ~0 miles of range and plug in a 32A charger with any of the existing vehicles (will use model Y because that's what I have), you will know that you can charge it to "full" with time to spare in the same 12 hours that will only get you 187 miles of rated range back on the cybertruck. So assuming winter conditions for both to be fair, nets you 158 miles of actual range in the model Y vs 130 miles in the cybertruck.

TLDR: Lots of easy math based on reasonable assumptions says that home charging power is a very valid concern for someone who actually will utilize the cybertruck to drive for 2 hours a day in the winter with any real frequency. I only picked 32A as that's what was stated in the post I quoted, 48A charging makes it easier, but still doesn't solve the issue totally.
 
Yes, your mileage may vary. Literally.

Different people have different needs and resources.
I rarely drive. When I do, it's usually just a few miles. Plenty of time for 110v to fill up & top off a CT. When full, I'll have ~500 miles range, halfway to pretty much anywhere I'd drive to and plenty of fast/super chargers along the way, with that 20-80% charge range supplying a nice 300 recharge without long delays. Being in the temperate South, HVAC isn't a huge hit.
Others may have 240v sourcing, sub-0º temps (F or C), long commutes, whatever. Yes, each has to address their own usage and decide what vehicle is appropriate. Some seem blasé about the limits because they'll rarely hit them; others are suffering a fight-or-flight reflex because they know limits will be pushed or passed.
Gas cars have obviated the concern by normalizing filling station stops, with stations every few miles in every direction. As such we have come to overlook the cumulative time (and money) spent "filling up", so few are inclined to compare that time vs the very obvious "waiting to charge" times (which stand out primarily because the act of explicitly "filling up" is so rare, vs the implicit plug-and-forget).
CT garners extra attention because it's big, heavy, and uses substantially more energy to move a mile.

I got by with a Leaf for 2 years just fine. Anything better than that, which is any EV since 2014, is enjoying exponentially shrinking issues.

As for the "CT is vaporware" digs, there's no indication it's cancelled or highly unlikely. Unsurprising delays are unsurprising.
 
But the models you refer to are much more efficient than cybertruck will be. If they rate the other models around 240Wh/mi, cybertruck will probably be in the range of 400Wh/mi. So if you are charging at 26 mi/hr on a model Y (at 32 amps) turns into 15.6 mi/hr. If you come home at 6pm and plug in, you're only adding 187 miles back to your range over the next 12 hours. And if it's winter and you need to heat the cabin, that 187 miles turns into 130 miles of actual range very quickly.
If you have the Wall Charger connected to 60Amps, you’ll be fine. The wall charger can add 30 miles/ hour to the Model X, the Cybertruck will likely charge 20MPH (likely better). That’s at least 240 miles of charge added over 12 hours. That’ll top of the dual or single motor Cybertruck every night. Unless you drive more than 240 miles multiple days in a row, it’s fine for the tri motor also.

Even your 187 miles/ day should be fine for most people. I get about 48 miles/ day on 110v and rarely need to hit the Supercharger.
 
As for the "CT is vaporware" digs, there's no indication it's cancelled or highly unlikely. Unsurprising delays are unsurprising.
Just consider the source.

The Tesla Twitter account posted a Halloween tweet with this image which sums up what the company is focused on quite well.

1635790167318.png



EDIT: I just noticed the Cyberpumpkin has 4 wheel steering.
 
But the models you refer to are much more efficient than cybertruck will be. If they rate the other models around 240Wh/mi, cybertruck will probably be in the range of 400Wh/mi.

We don’t really know what the efficiency hit will be.

So if you are charging at 26 mi/hr on a model Y (at 32 amps) turns into 15.6 mi/hr. If you come home at 6pm and plug in, you're only adding 187 miles back to your range over the next 12 hours. And if it's winter and you need to heat the cabin, that 187 miles turns into 130 miles of actual range very quickly.

Which is plenty for 90 percent of people.

For the rest, If you assume they drive more than 130 miles a say every day of the work week Saturday and Sunday will let you fully charge the truck back up. Because if you drive 200 (2-3hrs a day) and charge to 130 you only use 70 net miles. Then one day a week you can just use the supercharge for 15 minutes if you really needed too. Hardly a serious issue.
 
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Range is important but it isn’t what you said.

500 mile or 380 miles isn’t really that important, especially when you have super chargers. But none of that was what I was responding to. Straw man argument.



False bro. False.
The CT audience likely will go more remote roads/trips... maybe tow... maybe go camping without power for 2-3 days... all things i wouldnt want to do with less than 350+ effective range
 
Seems good to recall that gas stations were once not so prevalent. Planning out a trip, based on distance to next station, was presumably a thing (just as rest stops had charcoal grills, assuming commonplace cooking of meals en route, rather than just stopping for a $5 combo). At minimum, a bare majority of people can suitably charge EVs at home; those wanting better service will exude demand for which supply will be increased over time.

I expect new home sales will soon include by default at least 240v wiring in the garage, if not an actual charger unit, with home supply to match (or split supply for better pricing). More businesses will include in-lot chargers to attract customers and give them a reason to stay longer. Gas stations will start installing high-current chargers, ensuring growing numbers of EVs don't just pass by.

Yeah we're at a point were power sourcing is a bit limited, so one has to consider that when commencing a trip (however long). In-car navigation includes EV charging stations and range warnings, ensuring no reason to exhaust power stores. We've faced such problems before, and have far better resources now for mitigating and satisfying electrical needs.
 
The CT audience likely will go more remote roads/trips... maybe tow... maybe go camping without power for 2-3 days... all things i wouldnt want to do with less than 350+ effective range
I do a lot of camping and road trips with my Model Y LR and usually I have a couple bikes on the back which just destroys that 320+ mile range it’s supposed to have. The ~240 mile effective range I get with 2 bikes is tolerable. With the CT the bike will be inside, so range should be closer to the rated range, I could probably get by with the 300 mile truck… but the experiences with the Model Y prompted me to upgrade to the tri motor 500 mile range.

I’m sure there will be a lot of self-selecting. If you only occasionally need that extra range, $20,000 is a big price gap.
 
The CT audience likely will go more remote roads/trips... maybe tow... maybe go camping without power for 2-3 days... all things i wouldnt want to do with less than 350+ effective range
You are changing the argument. Having faster charging at home won’t help with your scenario. And the 500 mile truck will get you at least 350 miles full charge.
 
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You are changing the argument. Having faster charging at home won’t help with your scenario. And the 500 mile truck will get you at least 350 miles full charge.
if the Cybertruck comes with 500 miles of range and tri-motors for less than a Rivian... it'll sell like crazy. somehow I'm skeptical though after Tesla scratched the super long-range Plaid+. The CT needs new batteries and even than 500 miles of range would require an extremely large and $$ battery pack...
 
But the models you refer to are much more efficient than cybertruck will be. If they rate the other models around 240Wh/mi, cybertruck will probably be in the range of 400Wh/mi. So if you are charging at 26 mi/hr on a model Y (at 32 amps) turns into 15.6 mi/hr. If you come home at 6pm and plug in, you're only adding 187 miles back to your range over the next 12 hours. And if it's winter and you need to heat the cabin, that 187 miles turns into 130 miles of actual range very quickly.

The same people that get on the soapbox about how much range you actually need and charging speeds are the ones that also start talking about bullcrap like cabin heat and hills and headwinds when someone complains that they're only getting half of the range that was advertised. As if it's completely outside the realm of reasonable to expect even 200 miles of range when you were told you would get 326 on a long range Y. Oh but the gas car you are comparing to never gets the estimate either. Yeah, the gas car that is rated at 20mpg and gets 16 in bad conditions still goes 352 real world miles instead of 440 on a tank. Compare that with my model Y that is rated for 326 miles (which it never once has gotten, nor even said on the dash), when I picked it up day 1 a 100% charge was 312 miles. Now it's down 10 months later to about 288 miles. Now further reduce to 90% charge because that's what you're supposed to do to not throw the car away in 4 or 5 years, and the starting range is 263 miles. Is it winter? chop 40% off of that and you get 158 miles of actual range if you run it to zero.

So now take all of that and examine the cybertruck in the context you just said. Supercharging only works if you are in the range of ~10-70%. Past that it slows way down. So if we get a cybertruck that has 500 miles of range, only charge to 90%, so we start with 450, add some degradation and call it 425. Now assume it's winter and chop 30% off of the range (the one benefit to a less efficient EV with long range is less impact on range from heating the cabin). You end up with 300 actual miles of winter range between full (90%) charges, and you can only charge it at home 120 miles of actual range per night. Anyone with an hour long commute on the highway to and from work will not be able to keep up with a 32 amp charger.

If you coast in to your garage at ~0 miles of range and plug in a 32A charger with any of the existing vehicles (will use model Y because that's what I have), you will know that you can charge it to "full" with time to spare in the same 12 hours that will only get you 187 miles of rated range back on the cybertruck. So assuming winter conditions for both to be fair, nets you 158 miles of actual range in the model Y vs 130 miles in the cybertruck.

TLDR: Lots of easy math based on reasonable assumptions says that home charging power is a very valid concern for someone who actually will utilize the cybertruck to drive for 2 hours a day in the winter with any real frequency. I only picked 32A as that's what was stated in the post I quoted, 48A charging makes it easier, but still doesn't solve the issue totally.
Well Said. Some others here just don’t get it.
 
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If you have the Wall Charger connected to 60Amps, you’ll be fine. The wall charger can add 30 miles/ hour to the Model X, the Cybertruck will likely charge 20MPH (likely better). That’s at least 240 miles of charge added over 12 hours. That’ll top of the dual or single motor Cybertruck every night. Unless you drive more than 240 miles multiple days in a row, it’s fine for the tri motor also.

Even your 187 miles/ day should be fine for most people. I get about 48 miles/ day on 110v and rarely need to hit the Supercharger.
If your really charging your Tesla on 110 power, May I suggest stepping up,into the modern world.

i have a WC set up on a 100 amp breaker for a reason. MORE Power.
 
if the Cybertruck comes with 500 miles of range and tri-motors for less than a Rivian... it'll sell like crazy. somehow I'm skeptical though after Tesla scratched the super long-range Plaid+. The CT needs new batteries and even than 500 miles of range would require an extremely large and $$ battery pack...
I don’t think it’s as hard as you think. The cyber truck is a tin can on wheels, where as the rivian is a luxury truck.
 
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You are on your path and you won’t be distracted. Ok. Fine.

I would absolutely love to hear Rivian has broken through their manufacturing blockers and was cranking out hundreds of trucks a week.

Please feel free to pop in when they’ve cracked it. There is plenty of room for both companies in this market.

Unlike you and your pals on the Rivian forum, I am not filled with hatred for the other guy.

If the Rivian were about $20k less expensive, this would be a really tough call. But $80k for a truck is just ridiculous.
 
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