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Discussion in 'Model S' started by beun, Oct 10, 2014.
Is it me or did Tesla just thumb its nose at Saleen?
Not only the thumb ;-)
if you can not run with the big dogs, best you stay (chained to in Steve's case) on the porch
What has been rendered obsolete?
The lower gear for the drive unit?
That might even work better with the new overdrive unit in front.
Maybe some software adjustments will need to be made.
I doubt the Brembo carbon ceramic brakes have been rendered obsolete.
Everything else is still good to go.
You buy a car from Tesla then Saleen modifies it.
It is not like there are hundreds of Foursixteens on dealer lots or at a Saleen warehouse.
If I am not mistaken the new Auto Pilot uses the electromechanical brakes as part of it's system so bolting on the Carbon Ceramic system would not be possible if that's the case unless you wanted to kill the benefits of Auto Pilot (not likely for anyone)- Major selling point (if anything could convince someone to buy one anyway) gone. Better seats? Oops- Tesla already handled it for them too- STRIKE TWO!
I somehow doubt Tesla is going to assist them with software modification and honestly I think that could be a major hurdle if they wanted to modify the gearing on the "D" . I think this is big headache for Saleen personally. STRIKE THREE!
New announcement from Saleen: "Saleen Tyrannosaurus REX- The i3 redefined" coming soon!
Brembo invented electromechanical brakes. :wink:
1) Brembo electromechanical carbon ceramic brakes is simply another part number. :tongue:
2) TOL Recaro seats are better than anything Tesla supplier Futuris has ever considered making.
3) Saleen already modifies the software. When you sell BEVs starting at $150k you can afford competent hackers-software people. They don't need to write all the code just modify it.
Care to add any detail to (3)?
To me the P85D is a real car with all factory warrantee still attached. Let sum up what we know about the differences:
1) Top speed of the D is now 155Mph, Saleen changed the final drive gear and will not see an increase in top speed
2) A 0-60 of 3.2s, unless I haven't been able to find it Saleen doesn't specify
3) All wheel drive so most likely better traction, Saleen does have a locking differential though
4) No annoying drive train whine
1) I seriously doubt that Saleen did anything to the firmware, Tesla would never share their code and reverse engineering this is not going to be easy. Changing software would also mean update issues
2) Could Tesla install carbon ceramic breaks, sure maybe to an upcoming P85D+
3) Could Saleen start from a P85D, again sure but I think we will be seeing a diminishing return for the cost, how much more could they shave off, my guess is not much
I very much doubt anyone at Tesla has given, gives, or will give Saleen anything more than a shoulder shrug. Tesla has bigger plans and fish to fry.
I have no doubt Tesla could install expensive high tech brakes on the car. Actually, they just did, though not carbon ceramic as far as I know.
The big brake overhaul might lead to some interesting possibilities... There are indications in some of the articles that Tesla went to a force actuator feedback system for the brakes as part of the "electro-mechanical" braking upgrade that we don't fully understand yet - which would mean that there's no reason they can't do regeneration on the brake pedal with the new cars.
Synchronous A/C devices can be run as motors or generators with the same efficiency and output power as I understand it - and Tesla just added a big drive motor to the front axle. If they build up ~300 horsepower of regen (then new motor is rated for 224, and current Model Ss do 60 kW (80 HP) on the rear motor,) that's about half of the max braking effort right there, meaning much less work for the mechanical brakes (and therefore less heating, and less need for expensive materials.)
Of course, the battery pack might not be happy with ~230 kW surges, even if they are only for about 5 seconds (worst case 60-0. Higher speeds could mean longer surges.) Actually, it might take that, since it can handle ~120 kW for half an hour. If not, one option to address this would be an ultracapacitor stack hooked up to a DC-DC converter like Mazda's i-Eloop - brake into the stack and then it charges the battery more slowly.
Saleen? what about Renovo Motors who were marketing their EV to be the worlds fastest electric vehicle by coming out with their EV next year that did 0-60 in 3.4s , 100 mile max range, top speed 120mph, and cost $529k. Some were even calling it "tesla on steriods". I guess they need to change all their marketing materials now, lol.
I hadn't heard of them, but ya, that's gotta burn. I guess many people expected Tesla to stand still. We're only 2 years out from the S and haven't seen what the X will be like yet.
I call these stupid people. Looking at what they did with Roadster and Model S and expecting Tesla to stand still is about the worst possible projection I can imagine. Expecting Tesla to self-destruct or get lobbied/sued/earthquake'd was a more likely outcome.
Well they likely expected the X to be the next significant update to their line in any case.
That, OTOH, is a fair expectation.
I actually feel bad for the guys at Renovo Motors. Sure, their Coupe has fairly limited range and is way overpriced, but at least they have the right picture. The design is a nice mixture of retro and tech. I like pulling for the underdog who spends years in their garage building their dream. The P85D is going to crush them, so now Tesla is the "evil empire" from their prospective.
Renovo had the potential to offer some healthy competition for Tesla, not in a business sense as their volume would be tiny, but perhaps they could have pushed Tesla to hurry up and design the next generation Roadster.
Went to go find some info on this Renovo... Their site couldn't handle the D
I think this actually pretty good for Saleen, the relatively low power front engine could be replaced by a more powerful front engine, this could make the Tesla enter hyper car straight line performance.
Are you sure about this? I think electromechanical brakes were invented by Granville Woods (much like with Tesla, you can't believe everything a manufacturer tells you). How do you know Futuris is the supplier of the new seats? Someone said Recaro was the manufacturer of the new seats in the P85D (although I don't know it its accurate or not). Either way, without trying the new seats it seems presumptuous to say the Recaros are better. How do you know Saleen modifies the software and even if they can modify it do they have the engineering experience/expertise to modify the code that controls the vectoring without screwing up the driving dynamics/ efficiency of what Tesla has engineered in on the dual motor setup? Being able to modify a suspension or bolt on aftermarket brakes along with coming up with a new body kit is one thing, and something that they have been doing for many years but this is not at all what they are experienced in. I have a lot of respect for their products based on Mustangs, etc. but the collective opinion of the Saleen 416 has been much less enthusiastic even before this week's announcements.
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I don't think they can go any more powerful due to what the discharge limit of the battery pack is. It's like putting a 3000 hp drag motor in your Nova and trying to use the stock fuel pump/line