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May 19, 2017
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The future is electric and Daimler is ready to make the transition. Daimler has just announced that it is halting all future development of gasoline engines. The automaker will solely focus on electric cars from here on out. This implies that Mercedes-Benz is taking the same approach. The future is electric. We all know that...
[WPURI="https://teslamotorsclub.com/blog/2019/09/19/daimler-no-gas-engine-electric-only/"]READ FULL ARTICLE[/WPURI]
 
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Ulmo

Active Member
Jan 19, 2016
4,329
4,905
Vienna Woods, Aptos, California
The old ICE car manufacturers had weak electric car announcements over the years, but watching Bjorn Nyland's reviews of their new electric cars coming out now has revealed that their engineers & the rest that support those products are actually trying to do a great job. That's how I know they're finally serious. That applies to: Mercedes, Audi-VW-Porsche, Kia-Hyundai, and Jaguar, so far, and could soon apply to other old ICE car manufacturers as well.

I haven't heard of anything good from BMW, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Ford, or GM, and Nissan has pretended to flounder. The field was wide open a few years ago, though, so they may actually have something in the works. Volvo is coming out with something new, still as yet unknown if good. GM got some experience already with the Bolt, and got really close to good with it, so may come out with something good soon, if they've been actually working on it (have they?).

I partially disagree with Jack Rickard: just because Tesla is ahead in battery & range tech doesn't mean that they will win in every category. For instance, Tesla doesn't have a pickup and doesn't have a comfortable EV for big wide-boned people with bad backs. The other manufacturers had a chance a few years ago to start real programs that can catch up in most categories, and while they might not win in all the small-car-long-range-mid-price departments in the early 2020s (Model 3 & Y), they had a chance to pretty much catch up in everything else that matters, and some of them are starting to do it for real.

We have yet to see cheap electric vehicles, so that may be where Tesla still gets a leg in if they can get their Model 1 out, or Model 3's out in enough volume that they start getting REALLY cheap (say, $10,000 used), but I don't see that happening for a long time; that could allow Tesla to sweep the table, but I'm hopeful we won't have to deal with that dystopian future. We need good competition, as recent events have shown.

Also, towing vehicles like pickups need big batteries. That right there will be a challenge for everyone until it isn't. Right now, Tesla could pickup the pickup market, but if they don't, then it's wide open for Ford, GM, and the rest of them that give a damn, if they can. For instance, GM & Ford could easily sweep the high-end pickup market by just putting in ~250kWh batteries with some good permanent magnet motors on each wheel or axle and the right electronics, if they started such a program 3 years ago or more, maybe only two years ago like the rest of them did (that did) with the sedans.

And anyway, even the ICE manufacturers who start today, might still get a sliver of market share in the end if they execute well. They'd be on an uphill battle, though: cashing in billions of dollars to make millions of dollars, just to stay alive. A fraction of their former selves. If they're lucky.

Remember: Toyota didn't even have a pickup until two decades ago (except their golf-cart-sized one). Hyundai didn't even exist (at least in USA). Kia is brand new (in USA). Just because some companies may shrink a bunch doesn't mean they won't grow again. At some point, the components will be commodities, and batteries will be like gas. Just not yet.

P.S., "public opinion" doesn't matter. Day 1 that the old ICE manufacturers come out with a real pickup, they'll say it's real, and real people will just know EVs are fine. Better, in fact. That is, unless the old ICE manufacturers lie, by putting out a piece of crap golf cart that requires a Facebook and Myspace/Tower Records account and say it's real like #fakenews.
 
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DragonWatch

Small FootPrint
Aug 22, 2016
1,086
3,994
Mother Earth (Grapeview, WA)
The old ICE car manufacturers had weak electric car announcements over the years, but watching Bjorn Nyland's reviews of their new electric cars coming out now has revealed that their engineers & the rest that support those products are actually trying to do a great job. That's how I know they're finally serious. That applies to: Mercedes, Audi-VW-Porsche, Kia-Hyundai, and Jaguar, so far, and could soon apply to other old ICE car manufacturers as well.

I haven't heard of anything good from BMW, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Ford, or GM, and Nissan has pretended to flounder. The field was wide open a few years ago, though, so they may actually have something in the works. Volvo is coming out with something new, still as yet unknown if good. GM got some experience already with the Bolt, and got really close to good with it, so may come out with something good soon, if they've been actually working on it (have they?).

I partially disagree with Jack Rickard: just because Tesla is ahead in battery & range tech doesn't mean that they will win in every category. For instance, Tesla doesn't have a pickup and doesn't have a comfortable EV for big wide-boned people with bad backs. The other manufacturers had a chance a few years ago to start real programs that can catch up in most categories, and while they might not win in all the small-car-long-range-mid-price departments in the early 2020s (Model 3 & Y), they had a chance to pretty much catch up in everything else that matters, and some of them are starting to do it for real.

We have yet to see cheap electric vehicles, so that may be where Tesla still gets a leg in if they can get their Model 1 out, or Model 3's out in enough volume that they start getting REALLY cheap (say, $10,000 used), but I don't see that happening for a long time; that could allow Tesla to sweep the table, but I'm hopeful we won't have to deal with that dystopian future. We need good competition, as recent events have shown.

Also, towing vehicles like pickups need big batteries. That right there will be a challenge for everyone until it isn't. Right now, Tesla could pickup the pickup market, but if they don't, then it's wide open for Ford, GM, and the rest of them that give a damn, if they can. For instance, GM & Ford could easily sweep the high-end pickup market by just putting in ~250kWh batteries with some good permanent magnet motors on each wheel or axle and the right electronics, if they started such a program 3 years ago or more, maybe only two years ago like the rest of them did (that did) with the sedans.

And anyway, even the ICE manufacturers who start today, might still get a sliver of market share in the end if they execute well. They'd be on an uphill battle, though: cashing in billions of dollars to make millions of dollars, just to stay alive. A fraction of their former selves. If they're lucky.

Remember: Toyota didn't even have a pickup until two decades ago (except their golf-cart-sized one). Hyundai didn't even exist (at least in USA). Kia is brand new (in USA). Just because some companies may shrink a bunch doesn't mean they won't grow again. At some point, the components will be commodities, and batteries will be like gas. Just not yet.

P.S., "public opinion" doesn't matter. Day 1 that the old ICE manufacturers come out with a real pickup, they'll say it's real, and real people will just know EVs are fine. Better, in fact. That is, unless the old ICE manufacturers lie, by putting out a piece of crap golf cart that requires a Facebook and Myspace/Tower Records account and say it's real like #fakenews.

Toyota put a relative "family relative ~ VP" in charge of EVs a year or two back and to date ~ even if I cannot hear as well as I used to, nothing has come from Toyota.
 

DragonWatch

Small FootPrint
Aug 22, 2016
1,086
3,994
Mother Earth (Grapeview, WA)
Has anyone heard of contracts with Tesla, Panasonic, or LG to purchase battery packs by ICE manufactures so they can manufacture mass production EV's?

How may EV/ICE manufactures are jumping at the bit to merry up to Tesla Supercharging? Damned crickets:) Makes it hard to hear responses. Not as bad as when I slept next to 155 mm cannons firing:)

If this world really moves forward to EV power, the poo will hit the fan for the ICE folks. They are not prepared ~ should have been Eagle Scouts.
 
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Petrocelli

Member
Aug 11, 2019
380
496
Los Angeles
How may EV/ICE manufactures are jumping at the bit to merry up to Tesla Supercharging? Damned crickets:) Makes it hard to hear responses. Not as bad as when I slept next to 155 mm cannons firing:)
.

Tesla thinks in the short term. It is a start up that focuses on each quarter's results. It must do so to stay in business.

In contrast, Mercedes plays the long game. It has long term customers. It will not rush EVs to market with panel gaps and paint flaws. It will bide its time and produce Mercedes quality EVs.

In three years, when it starts releasing a lot of EVs, I am sure Mercedes will figure out a way to have superchargers available to its customers.
 

jboy210

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Dec 2, 2016
5,722
3,709
Northern California
Tesla thinks in the short term. It is a start up that focuses on each quarter's results. It must do so to stay in business.

In contrast, Mercedes plays the long game. It has long term customers. It will not rush EVs to market with panel gaps and paint flaws. It will bide its time and produce Mercedes quality EVs.

In three years, when it starts releasing a lot of EVs, I am sure Mercedes will figure out a way to have superchargers available to its customers.

The big thing the major automakers must do is improve efficiency. The review of the Mercedes EQC shows they have consider work to go. I have no doubt they will get there. But Tesla must definitely fix their quality.
 

Petrocelli

Member
Aug 11, 2019
380
496
Los Angeles
I agree totally. This end of quarter thing is just an attempt to appease Wall Street. There is nothing about Tesla’s MO that would lead me to think they aren’t always thinking long term.

Musk's compensation is tied to the market cap of Tesla. As such, I am sure the short term performance of the stock is important to him. Thus, it is in Musk's interest to appease Wall Street.
 
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ggr

Expert in Dunning-Kruger Effect!
Supporting Member
Mar 24, 2011
7,033
28,466
San Diego, CA
Musk's compensation is tied to the market cap of Tesla. As such, I am sure the short term performance of the stock is important to him. Thus, it is in Musk's interest to appease Wall Street.
This statement is ridiculous on the face of it. It's based entirely on meeting long term goals, like $500B market cap in 5 years. The path to that probably does not require appeasing people who want quarterly profits. It needs growth.
 
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ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
11,068
8,884
Maine
Yay, thread derailed.

And heeeeaaavvveeee ...

It's a click-bait headline overblowing things. Globally the majority of investment is already going into electrification, so sure, it could happen. But all the quotes in the article say is that they aren't looking beyond the current development. That's all.

Taking each cycle as it comes, to paraphrase the sports cliche.
 
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