Dangerous bug with autopilot on 2018.10.4

[rlebrun]

I just upgraded to 2018.10.4 on my Model X, AP2 - I love it! It finally handles some very sharp curves without me needing to take over.

However, autopilot seems to become totally confused if using windshield fluid at the same time. I was driving on a straight road, 90 km/h (not mph before anyone starts wondering). I turned windshield cleaning on at the same time, the car ended up swerving into the adjcacent lane. Fortunately, there was no oncoming traffic at the same time.

Have been able to reproduce the bug every single time afterwards - see videos below. Notice in video #1, on the screen, how autopilot thinks it is still in the center of the lane, even though the car is right in the middle of the road.

I never had this happen in previous versions. Be careful if you wish to test this to reproduce the bug.

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[Compton]

Good observation - I hope you have tried to notify Tesla about this.

 

[VikH]

That is odd. The video below shows someone using the new software with wipers on. Seems fine.

Another Autopilot 2018.10.4 test video • r/teslamotors

 

[rlebrun]

I have immediately escalated this to Tesla. I don't think it's wipers causing the issue, rather the amount of fluid that passes suddenly in front of the cameras when using windshield cleaning, which is likely much more than what you get with rain.

 

[barjohn]

It wasn't clear in your video that you were spraying cleaning fluid when it happened. Does this imply a heavy raid would have produced different results in the video showing AP with latest software driving twisty road in the rain?

 

[rlebrun]

I was indeed spraying cleaning fluid (standard from Tesla SC) in the video. Maybe heavy rain would yield the same effect and I would not want to try to reproduce this on a heavily rainy day.

 

[barjohn]

Thanks, I couldn't tell, just saw the wipers.

 

[Barklikeadog]

They can do all of the software updates possible... is this not disconcerting when Tesla says the vehicles have all the hardware necessary for fully autonomous self driving?
I'm a broken record on this, but I feel the Lidar issue is not going to go away.
Would the car be better or worse if it had Lidar?
If the answer is better, then it seems like a necessity.

 

[outie]

The washer fluid barely comes out of the wipers in the X. I find it hard to believe the "amount of fluid" coming out (as there's only little bit) would affect it while a heavy rain would not.

 

[ecarfan]

autopilot seems to become totally confused if using windshield fluid at the same time. I was driving on a straight road, 90 km/h (not mph before anyone starts wondering). I turned windshield cleaning on at the same time, the car ended up swerving into the adjcacent lane. Fortunately, there was no oncoming traffic at the same time. Have been able to reproduce the bug every single time afterwards

I am not disputing what you reported, but had to test it for myself because it is a very odd bug. I updated my X to 2018.10.4 a few hours ago and had already driven it with EAP on for several miles on local freeways and surface streets while noting the same impressive improvements that others have posted about today in other threads on TMC.

So I tried to replicate your issue. My test was with partially cloudy skies at 65mph on a freeway with no car in front of me in my lane, so EAP was not tracking another vehicle. I pressed the button at the end of the stalk to activate the wipers and use the windshield fluid. With the windshield wipers swiping back and forth the car stayed centered in the lane. I could not detect anything abnormal. I repeated the test 5 times.

I could not replicate what you describe.

Because you are in Europe I suspect we are not running exactly the same firmware versions despite the fact that the version numbers displayed in our cars are the same.

 

[joeblau]

Thanks, I couldn't tell, just saw the wipers.

On the Model X, the windshield washer fluid is distributed on the blade, it doesn't actually spray anything. When I got my car and turned on the wipers, I didn't noice any fluid... after checking the fluid levels, I realized it was full. @outie's comment is apt because in practice, it doesn't even look like washer fluid ever comes out of the wipers.

 

[mattack4000]

I tried it in pouring rain, activited the wiper, didnt do it

 

[Xtek]

On the Model X, the windshield washer fluid is distributed on the blade, it doesn't actually spray anything. When I got my car and turned on the wipers, I didn't noice any fluid... after checking the fluid levels, I realized it was full. @outie's comment is apt because in practice, it doesn't even look like washer fluid ever comes out of the wipers.

For what it's worth I knew it did this and still thought "Huh, I don't see anything". There are 2 levels to the washer button, I was only pushing it halfway.

 

[ecarfan]

There are 2 levels to the washer button, I was only pushing it halfway.

I didn’t know about the “two levels”. But I see that on page 62 in the Owners Manual it states “Press partially for a single wipe without any washer fluid. Press fully for both wipe and wash.”

Thanks for that tip.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_x_owners_manual_north_america_en.pdf

 

[Xtek]

I didn’t know about the “two levels”. But I see that on page 62 in the Owners Manual it states “Press partially for a single wipe without any washer fluid. Press fully for both wipe and wash.”

Thanks for that tip.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_x_owners_manual_north_america_en.pdf

Yup, it drove me insane. To be fair this was right after delivery day and I was too psyched to get the car to read the full manual. >.>

 

[ytwytw]

It looks like you are driving facing to the sun

There are some reports that strong sunlight confuses AP Camera.

I assume wiper+water+strong sunlight causes the unique problem

 

[enzo86]

I find it also interesting that the headlights turn on in the first video, and are already on in the second. Is this just an auto feature of the wipers coming on? Also, the Road surface around the centerline looks very un-standard.

 

[enzo86]

They can do all of the software updates possible... is this not disconcerting when Tesla says the vehicles have all the hardware necessary for fully autonomous self driving?
I'm a broken record on this, but I feel the Lidar issue is not going to go away.
Would the car be better or worse if it had Lidar?
If the answer is better, then it seems like a necessity.

The price of the LIDAR systems are VERY expensive and require rather UGLY positioning, and I think does very poorly in bad weather (Rain). I also believe the the compute power to process millions of Datapoints in real time is very high. If you look at some of the DARPA cars they have full racks of hardware in the back to support those LIDAR systems.

 

[MXWing]

The price of the LIDAR systems are VERY expensive and require rather UGLY positioning, and I think does very poorly in bad weather (Rain). I also believe the the compute power to process millions of Datapoints in real time is very high. If you look at some of the DARPA cars they have full racks of hardware in the back to support those LIDAR systems.

Dumping my Tesla when the Google Car Store is open. Love me some Waymo cars.

 

[mxnym]

They can do all of the software updates possible... is this not disconcerting when Tesla says the vehicles have all the hardware necessary for fully autonomous self driving?
I'm a broken record on this, but I feel the Lidar issue is not going to go away.
Would the car be better or worse if it had Lidar?
If the answer is better, then it seems like a necessity.

LIDAR doesn't do anything especially impressive either, I tend to believe Musk is on the right pat in spite of what everyone else is saying. That having been said, my experience with LIDAR is fairly limited, so it could be that I've only dealt with poor implementations.

The price of the LIDAR systems are VERY expensive and require rather UGLY positioning, and I think does very poorly in bad weather (Rain). I also believe the the compute power to process millions of Datapoints in real time is very high. If you look at some of the DARPA cars they have full racks of hardware in the back to support those LIDAR systems.

I wonder if the big 3 (and maybe others) pushed for the SAE to include LIDAR in their FSD standard as a barrier of entry. It wouldn't be that hard to believe, really. Just like it's not that hard to believe that the big three sponsor at least some lobbying to force electric vehicles to make sound for "safety."