Tam
Well-Known Member
"Selective Availability (SA) was an intentional degradation of public GPS signals implemented for national security reasons."
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Dangerous Freeway Autopilot Slowdown
- Thread starter gaspi101
- Start date
"Selective Availability (SA) was an intentional degradation of public GPS signals implemented for national security reasons."
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Doesn't the government degrade civilian GPS accuracy?
No. During the 1990s, GPS employed a feature called Selective Availability that intentionally degraded civilian accuracy on a global basis.
In May 2000, at the direction of President Bill Clinton, the U.S. government ended its use of Selective Availability in order to make GPS more responsive to civil and commercial users worldwide.
The United States has no intent to ever use Selective Availability again.
Something similar happened to me once while visiting a friend in El Paso a couple of years ago. Car thought I was on the street of the overpass above me which apparently had a speed limit of 35 mph and started rapidly decelerating from the 80 mph I was traveling at. I had To hit the go pedal quickly to override. First and only time it’s happened to me (to be clear, I have had other false braking events, but much more minor where even if I took my time getting my foot on the go pedal, I lost maybe 5 mph, this event I lost 15-20 mph in a couple of seconds) I get how that would be very dangerous if I had a tail gater and I wasn’t paying attention. It’s never happened to me in my drives in CA, including on long trips to SF from LA and back.
There's so much "you're just holding it wrong" in the Tesla community it never ceases to disappoint me.
A good measure of whether AP is performing well is - if you were behind the car that rapidly decelerated from 70 to 30mph out of the blue, would you think they were a good driver or bad?
Further - if you had passengers in the car when this happened, how terrified would they be?
Large speed limit jumps due to large GPS location jumps which are physically impossible for the car to have traversed and/or do not match the vision systems image of the real world in front of the car should not result in hard deceleration.
I dunno, people pay $10k for this feature set and then apologize for it day in & day out, I don't get it.
We should demand better from Tesla if we want better.
Maybe Cali drivers have a very different experience since thats about half of all Teslas sold have been there historically, so maybe more of the corner cases have been corrected. That almost makes me worry more like theres a mechanical turk farm of people offshore manually tagging weird overrides location by location, and Cali just has higher sampling & correction rate.
A good measure of whether AP is performing well is - if you were behind the car that rapidly decelerated from 70 to 30mph out of the blue, would you think they were a good driver or bad?
Further - if you had passengers in the car when this happened, how terrified would they be?
Large speed limit jumps due to large GPS location jumps which are physically impossible for the car to have traversed and/or do not match the vision systems image of the real world in front of the car should not result in hard deceleration.
I dunno, people pay $10k for this feature set and then apologize for it day in & day out, I don't get it.
We should demand better from Tesla if we want better.
Maybe Cali drivers have a very different experience since thats about half of all Teslas sold have been there historically, so maybe more of the corner cases have been corrected. That almost makes me worry more like theres a mechanical turk farm of people offshore manually tagging weird overrides location by location, and Cali just has higher sampling & correction rate.
Here on Xmas eve at 70mph, someone rode all the way through the "left lane ends" lane past the point of it's existence.. and then used the shoulder to pass me on the left.
I saw him barreling down from my side view mirror a few cars back and figured he would cut off a few cars and end up behind me, but would keep my eye on him. This paid off as I watched all the way to the point he was basically next to my rear end and I then cut speed and gave him some space to avoid a side swipe.
We could argue about exactly what the car should have done, but "nothing" (no alert, no speed change, no steering change) is probably not the right answer.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Nobody is apologizing here.
When using cutting edge “beta” technology you need to have some common sense.
No amount of ”demanding” is going to make it suddenly better. It’s not like Tesla is ignoring investing in FSD/AP development Or top executives aren’t spending enough time on it.
“If only we shout more in forums it will all be better” is just magical thinking.
I’m sorry, but no. The autopilot system should not rely on GPS coordinates alone to determine autopilot behavior. It read speed limit signs seconds before, on the same road, sees traffic traveling at 70mph, the whole story of autopilot is supposed to be that it takes a lot of different inputs and makes a data-correlation decision which is highly accurate to reality. But what I’m seeing is that this is not the case at all. All it takes is a GPS location error, and the car will then instantly decelerate from 70 to 15mph—this is not user error, this is not simply GPS error. This is a fatal flaw in the implementation of the system.
/rant over
Tam
Well-Known Member
Could that be it's just a very rare bug that is not easily reproducible?
I’m sorry. it seems the post was not well received, I did not want a spectacle, I talk to my car and bike all the time…not for video only, I’m latin, it’s normal to talk to inanimate objects that are acting crazy and to exaggerate a little bi….didn’t mean to upset people….after the sudden deceleration, I turned AP off, and then turned it back on to get a video of how crazy it was acting so I could prove to Tesla service what was happening because they often can’t reproduce errors and if you have no evidence they don’t do anything…then I decided to post here to see if anyone had seen this before because I anticipate Tesla service won’t do anything and it will be up to me to fix or find a workaround…people here assume the worst, weird
Tam
Well-Known Member
You did the right thing to post the incident otherwise, people would think that it was all fake.
Despite how people think about the video, I think it is informative, and it does have value so that we could analyze it and understand what went wrong then learn from it.
I do thank you for your effort.
this is a common argument on this board, I don’t get it. Talking about it on a forum is not mutually exclusive to lodging a formal service ticket and maybe writing directly to Tesla, both of which I will do. As a consumer, I’m not sure I can do much more, short of litigating, and I’m not disposed to do that. I’m not engaging in magical thinking. I’m engaging in a discussion with Tesla owners from around the world that also may have experienced similar issues and could perhaps teach me a thing or two. I’ve learned so much from this board already
This happens to me every single day when I go to work on my route. There is construction rerouting a highway in Dallas, TX on I35E that the Tesla maps just hasn't updated. So like you it goes from 65 mph to 30 mph on the road and thinks it has exited the highway abruptly. I have even see it mention coming up to a stop light when there is traffic moving slowly. The first time I did this drive on Autopilot it was amazingly jarring when this happened and scared the s*** out of me. I thought it was a bug or my first phantom braking episode. Then I noticed a trend that it would happen at the same place every time and only on one side of the highway (return journey doesn't make any speed changes like this). So I just consciously turn off AP every time I drive in this area until the speed settles out. Then I start it again.
I agree with your general sentiment that it could be extremely bad for a driver and may result in an accident. Tesla will then have hell to pay for these sorts of mapping/GPS errors and not fixing it quicker.
I also agree with the others that said that once it happened and you realized something was seriously wrong, I would not endanger yourself or others by just holding down the accelerator and "fighting" AP into doing what it's supposed to do when it wants to do something dangerous. This is a moment to just be safe and turn it off and drive manually.
I agree with your general sentiment that it could be extremely bad for a driver and may result in an accident. Tesla will then have hell to pay for these sorts of mapping/GPS errors and not fixing it quicker.
I also agree with the others that said that once it happened and you realized something was seriously wrong, I would not endanger yourself or others by just holding down the accelerator and "fighting" AP into doing what it's supposed to do when it wants to do something dangerous. This is a moment to just be safe and turn it off and drive manually.
linux-works
Active Member
EVNow
Well-Known Member
If Elon wants he can easily get companies manufacturing high precision gps in volume. ESP. Public companies would find it highly desirable to be associated with Tesla …
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Mod changed the title - if you had started with this title, hardly anyone would argue with you. Nobody is saying it’s not a bug .. and Phantom braking is the top bug Tesla is dealing with anyway.
BUT, it is weird that you kept pushing the accelerator instead of disengaging. That is a dangerous response and should be discouraged.
It is not obviously wrong to point it out. Also as you can see we are discussing what Tesla can do to correct it.
We are mostly a bunch of nerds here - this is what you would expect from nerds
ps : Thanks for coming back and responding here unlike some who practice hit&run.
Similar threads
