larmor
Active Member
Also, please let us know, other people sharing the highway with you, if you are planning on watching something or sleeping in the car....
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Dangly weight tied to steering wheel to fool autopilot that you're paying attention?
- Thread starter ratsbew
- Start date
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- Autopilot darwin award Model S
Garlan Garner
Banned
Oh larmor....my comment was to the public in general. not specifically to you. I changed it.
Every single "accident" is caused by someone's negligence, whether it's yours, your mechanics, the manufacturer, insurance still pays out.
larmor
Active Member
"In related news, the injured and insured driver perpetuating defeat mechanisms to AP has markedly increased insurance rates. Everyone is surprised..."
green1
Active Member
You didn't answer my question. If there was no nag, would you personally do anything differently? If so, I possit that you're a bad driver. If not, you're failing to make your point that the nag adds to the safety.
How has the nag frequency increase stopped someone from watching a DVD and tugging the wheel for each nag?
How does increasing the frequency of the nag help the driver who is already paying attention with their hands resting lightly on the wheel?
It does not increase safety in either of those cases.
Anyone who thinks the nag is what makes them personally a safer driver, is admitting that without it they would be an irresponsible driver. Which tells me that they are still an irresponsible driver with it.
green1
Active Member
First you claim the person would be denied coverage, when that was shot down you now claim their rates will increase, as we know that this too is not the case (as people's rates don't increase for doing stupid things behind the wheel, they increase only in relation to their actual driving record) What are you going to fall back on now?
"but they must be punished... because I say so!!!!"
What about all the people that defeated the mechanism on their old cruise control enabled cars that required them to tap the brake pedal every minute for safety?... oh wait... manufacturers never implemented such a ludicrous non-safety safety feature... Nothing new here, only thing new is the increased nannying.
larmor
Active Member
Well that's why big data has a big market value. If I as an insurance company can find a way to save money- pay out less, or get a higher rate from my customers then, i as an insurance company have a better bottom line. FWIW, this is coming to health care/insurance, just my opinion.
larmor
Active Member
If there was no nag, i would still keep my hands on the wheel. I'm driving a big expensive car with precious cargo and care about the safety of me and my compatriots on the highway. If the AP helps mitigate safety by increasing the amount of scanning of the highway around me, then that's more safe for me. I have my hands on the wheel and have not received any 'nags'. So i must be mistaken regarding the nagging issue.
Dr. Smoke
My former name was Edmond. Before that, Quantum`.
For all those who have posted in favor of the nag:
If Tesla gave us the option to turn it off... would you. Truthfully?
At least answer to yourself truthfully.
If Tesla gave us the option to turn it off... would you. Truthfully?
At least answer to yourself truthfully.
green1
Active Member
So now that we have destroyed your argument that people will be punished by their auto-insurance companies, you're claiming they'll be punished by their health insurance company instead? I get it that you want them to be punished, but c'mon, what's next, home insurance?
green1
Active Member
Thank you. That is the answer of a responsible driver.
I have completely disabled the nags on my car. I never see a nag under any circumstance. That does not mean that I'm not paying attention and ready to take over. I do not use other devices while driving, my full attention is on driving, including scanning the road around me outside the vehicle, monitoring the vehicle's systems, and all of the other aspects of safe driving. I am ready to take over from the car at any time and with no warning. I have in fact demonstrated this on many occasions in thousands of kilometres of AP driving. Adding nags would add distractions to that mix, they would in no way increase my level of safety.
If I crash, it will not be the fault of AP as I do not believe that AP is capable of being at fault (barring some malfunction that actually prevents the driver from manually operating the brakes or steering wheel) AP is a driver assistance feature, nothing more. It is however the best cruise control available so far. At least when the nags are disabled.
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larmor
Active Member
Any insurance service or company will experience decreased revenues if there is less demand for their services. They won't scrape your data, you will provide it free of charge when they say: mr/mrs xyz are you interested in a reduced insurance rate? and if you are, then they scrape your data. Then any insurance company or service will cherry pick huge pools of safe drivers, healthy people, etc and presumably their rate of payout will be less with a safer healthier risk pool. Just my musings, i'm not in the insurance business.
NikeWings
Active Member
^^^ yes, and there are plenty out there. What about inexperienced or just stupid drivers (like those backing up on freeways because they missed an exit) that don't know what they don't know? Tons of them out there causing accidents while escaping unscathed. NHTSA support for technology driven enhancements (all manufacturers) has been based primarily on their stats that inexperienced drivers (<25 yrs of age) contribute exponentially higher to crash rates and fatalities, further amplified by increasing distractions and poor judgment among all age groups. TSLA obviously has to play into the rationale to garner ongoing support. i expect they use it to their advantage as much as fight it.
One thing that occurs to me green1, is based on your posts you are above average in driving/mechanical intelligence and probably IQ in general. But I am horrified to imagine less experienced drivers without needed checks/balances/nags. So, while nags annoy your intuitive and skilled handling, for the average Joe (especially the average young Joe), nags may very well make the difference between an avoidable incident and a tragedy because to your point, many are in fact irresponsible and inexperienced drivers anyway.
I don't want to be nagged either, but the thought of 300,000 (or whatever it is) new M3s with a high amount of young drivers behind the wheel, entering roadways with youthful habits we've fortunately lived through but with sporty tech we never had, a few nags may very well make a difference and keep more appreciably safe. And that holds for new S drivers, X, MB, BMW etc.
As I say to my favorite (& only) brother.....its not your handling that concerns me when you're cruising on your motorcycle. The same goes for you. Stay safe.
hybridbear
Active Member
I agree 110%!!! I drive the same way you do and nags are a distraction that decreases safety.
hybridbear
Active Member
On what part of the wheel do you attach the weights? I've tried a few experiments with weights that are less than 1 lb and I am still getting nags. I'm not sure if the issue is lack of weight or if the issue is where I am attaching the weight to the steering wheel. Those weights are rather expensive compared to the $1-$2 items I'm using.
green1
Active Member
So you think that everyone ELSE is the problem? Sorry, that's ridiculous.
As for all the inexperienced drivers, there are many many things we could do to make them safer but don't. Instead we have this one ridiculous nag that doesn't make them any safer, but helps Tesla's PR department say "we did something" even if it doesn't actually make anyone safer.
We have a car that can read speed limit signs. Why does it ever let you go above the posted limit? We have a car that can detect if your seatbelt is buckled, why don't we stop people from putting it in drive unless you're buckled in? There are many more examples.
We don't do these things, despite the fact that they'd actually be safety improvements because they'd be horribly unpopular. The nag is far less of a safety feature than either of those, so there is no justification as to why it should be mandatory when those are not.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Keep lowering the bar folks and people will comply.
A hands on wheel function when the AP has reached a certain level of uncertainty is meaningful and useful. A requirement of interaction every set number of seconds will have us trained to touch the wheel periodically.
The first has value to the AP process and interaction. The second disconnects the AP's need for guidance from the human interaction making the system less safe.
If you think the adult in the room needs to put a periodic reminder to drive correctly to get the driver to drive correctly then I submit you are better off getting that same adult to simply take the keys away.
A hands on wheel function when the AP has reached a certain level of uncertainty is meaningful and useful. A requirement of interaction every set number of seconds will have us trained to touch the wheel periodically.
The first has value to the AP process and interaction. The second disconnects the AP's need for guidance from the human interaction making the system less safe.
If you think the adult in the room needs to put a periodic reminder to drive correctly to get the driver to drive correctly then I submit you are better off getting that same adult to simply take the keys away.
NikeWings
Active Member
Not at all. While I prefer not to be nagged, I've not complained nor jury rigged it nor asked for it to be disengaged. I do believe nags will also benefit inexperienced drivers, and that category did not appear to be accounted for in your comments.....just irresponsible drivers.
NikeWings
Active Member
green1
Active Member
I do not believe a nag helps an inexperienced driver at all. And if you think you need a nag, you shouldn't be driving. It's that simple.
People shouldn't be driving properly because their car nags them to do so, and in fact in no other system on the car do we nag people to force correct behaviour. We don't nag people who speed, or who swerve aggressively, we don't nag people who brake too hard, or people who don't wear their seatbelt (ok, we do a bit, but more like the 7.0 AP nag, not the 8.0 one) If we trust people to drive after they've taken their license test, then we should trust them to drive. If we don't think they can drive after taking their test, then we should fix the test.
But it's perfect enough to limit the speed with which you can engage AP? You're defeating your own argument.
Not to mention, show me ANY car system that's "perfect" and I'll show you one that can be misused and that we don't restrict.
