Dark morning in America - talk of Model S seems - frivolous

[calisnow]

My blood ran cold when I flipped open the computer this morning. I woke up thinking of spaceship controls and how soon they'll show up in Model S. And then the news. 134 million people blanket banned.

This morning, I think, I won't forget where I was when I read the news. Like the moment my 5th grade teacher came into my classroom, eyes full of tears, and told us the space shuttle exploded. Or when my girlfriend called me on her way to work and told me to flip on the news - a jet had flown into one of the twin towers. The silence in the skies over Los Angeles for the next several days.

Today I woke up in a hotel in Minneapolis, thinking of how I don't like the ride in the Model X I rented last night. Now all I can think of is what I am supposed to say to my Iranian American friend in Los Angeles about his parents in Tehran.

"I'm sorry"
"I'm with you brother"
"I swear, America is not like this."
"No really, this isn't America. The real America will show herself soon I swear."

It's only political theater, sure - the ban will probably be lifted soon. But it's an ugly show.
...

It's off topic - mod move it I know. I guess if you spend enough time somewhere (here at TMC in the S forum) eventually it feels like a kind of home, a community. And then if something traumatic happens it feels like you have to acknowledge it before you can move on.

It isn't business as usual. This isn't a normal day. I can't talk about spaceship controls without acknowledging this first.

God help us - it's got to get better. This isn't my country, what the hell is happening. F*CKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

 

[Matthew Hill]

What happened? Were we hit again? I haven't seen anything in the news.

 

[SoCal Jimmy]

He's referring to this:

Trump's latest executive order: Banning people from 7 countries and more - CNNPolitics.com

 

[mbhforum]

Please spare this forum of Politics. It's bad enough it's all over Social Media and News. There is a place to discuss these things and here is not it. BTW - I agree with you.

 

[bonnie]

Thanks @calisnow for speaking up. Right now there are people with green cards, who are prevented from re-entering the country that is now their home. They're being told to return to their point of origin. Families stuck between two countries - some here, others unable to return home who were legally traveling on business.

All of you, imagine what you would do if you left home on business, traveling with your green card, fully expecting to be home with your family today - only to find that the documents you have in your possession, that were legal just yesterday, are now worthless to you. Where do you go?

 

[bonnie]

And let's not even touch on the fact that Saudi Arabia wasn't included in the ban, even though the majority of 9/11 terrorists have come from that country.

Oh right. Some people have business interests there.

 

[Matthew Hill]

Oh... yeah just went over to CNN.com and saw that. I can understand how that would be upsetting to many people. I wouldn't say it's Challenger-exploding upsetting though (at least to me -- maybe you have reason to feel differently).

If it helps, understand that many, if not most Americans do not support this.

 

[Lump]

This is a car forum!

 

[gimmi80]

Right now there are people with green cards, who are prevented from re-entering the country that is now their home.

This sounds like BS to me. If it was true it would be horrible and violation of human rights...

Do you have proof supporting your claim?

 

[jbcarioca]

What happened? Were we hit again? I haven't seen anything in the news.

No, we were not hit.
But, one of my best friends, who has traveled to the US five times a year on buinsess for the last 30 years, was just deported on arrival at JFK. He is a graduate of Columbia University BA, MBA and works with me for several years as a banker. he never thought he needed another country. i tried to convince him "you never know what could happen..." but he's Iranian to the core, not a fan of current government there but not about to give up on his country. Oops!
Then the refugees who've gone through the multi-year exhaustive process to gain refugee status in the US suddenly find their visas are not valid for entry. My Afghan friend years ago was wise enough to naturalize in the US. Presumably he's safe, but his name and physical appearance still. Then there is another old friend, born in Pakistan, naturalized US 20 years ago, who spent four hours being questioned on arrival last night.

I know it is off topic. I suspect many people are in a similar state of shock. Green Card holders banned? Christians given priority?

The question is why President Trump chose these countries instead of the one that sent most 9/11 culprits to the US (Saudi Arabia), or sent other terrorists.

It is very hard to experience this. I thought the US was far more intelligent than this. I shudder to think of the consequences.
One almost certain consequence will the the cancellation of the Iran order for Boeing aircraft worth $16.6 billion. Presumably that order will go to Airbus now. Still President Hassan Rouhani was surprisingly muted in his response:
Farsnews

We now have a less stable Middle East and a less cooperative world than we did only two weeks ago.

If mods think we're out of order I understand. I, like the OP, find much of my perspective colored by posts here, even though this has no direct connection to Tesla.

 

[jbcarioca]

This sounds like BS to me. If it was true it would be horrible and violation of human rights...

Do you have proof supporting your claim?

Yes, check the news, your choice of source:
Trump’s order already blocks green card, visa holders at airports

 

[S'toon]

The U.S. Turned Away These Refugees in 1939—and 254 Were Murdered by the Nazis

My mother came to the US as a refugee. She was born in the Soviet Union near the beginning of WWII. When the Soviets advanced on Germany at the end of WWII, my grandfather took his family, and followed the Soviet army escaping the country. They wound up at the end of the war in a displaced persons camp. They were sponsored to the US as refugees.

 

[bonnie]

This sounds like BS to me. If it was true it would be horrible and violation of human rights...

Do you have proof supporting your claim?

Well, if you will take the text of the executive order as proof .. then yes. You can follow the link in this article to get the actual text.

Also might find interesting which countries were NOT included: Trump’s Immigration Ban Excludes Countries With Business Ties

 

[bonnie]

This sounds like BS to me. If it was true it would be horrible and violation of human rights...

Do you have proof supporting your claim?

And I agree. It is horrible and a violation of human rights.

 

[S'toon]

<snip>

People holding green cards, making them legal permanent U.S. residents, are included in the order, a Department of Homeland security spokeswoman said on Saturday.

"It will bar green card holders," said Gillian Christensen.

Green card holders questioned

Mana Yegani, a lawyer working with the American Immigration Lawyers Association, said she and other lawyers worked through the night fielding calls from travellers with student and worker visas who were being denied entry into the U.S. and ordered on flights back to countries on the list.

Green card holders were also being stopped and questioned for several hours. Officials also denied travellers with dual Canadian and Iranian citizenship from boarding planes in Canada that were headed the United States, she said.

"These are people that are coming in legally. They have jobs here and they have vehicles here," Yegani said.

Those with visas from the affected Muslim-majority countries have gone through background checks with U.S. authorities, Yegani noted.

"Just because Trump signed something at 6 p.m. yesterday, things are coming to a crashing halt," she said. "It's scary."

<snip>

Full article at:
U.S. entry ban already affecting passengers as Trump, Putin set to talk

 

[Doug_G]

Moderator note: I moved this to Off Topic, and moved a few posts out to snippiness that included a personal attack or quoted it.

Usually we only allow politics as it relates to EVs, Tesla, etc. Partisan bickering will not be tolerated. If this thread degenerates into name calling it will all be trashed. You have been warned.

 

[snellenr]

Well, if you will take the text of the executive order as proof .. then yes. You can follow the link in this article to get the actual text.

Also might find interesting which countries were NOT included: Trump’s Immigration Ban Excludes Countries With Business Ties

As it says in the executive order, in Section 3:

"(g) Notwithstanding a suspension pursuant to subsection (c) of this section or pursuant to a Presidential proclamation described in subsection (e) of this section, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may, on a case-by-case basis, and when in the national interest, issue visas or other immigration benefits to nationals of countries for which visas and benefits are otherwise blocked."

So visas can be issued on a case-by-case basis, so I'd look to see whether visas are issued for most of these "in transit" cases today.

 

[McRat]

My blood ran cold when I flipped open the computer this morning. I woke up thinking of spaceship controls and how soon they'll show up in Model S. And then the news. 134 million people blanket banned.

This morning, I think, I won't forget where I was when I read the news. Like the moment my 5th grade teacher came into my classroom, eyes full of tears, and told us the space shuttle exploded. Or when my girlfriend called me on her way to work and told me to flip on the news - a jet had flown into one of the twin towers. The silence in the skies over Los Angeles for the next several days.

Today I woke up in a hotel in Minneapolis, thinking of how I don't like the ride in the Model X I rented last night. Now all I can think of is what I am supposed to say to my Iranian American friend in Los Angeles about his parents in Tehran.

"I'm sorry"
"I'm with you brother"
"I swear, America is not like this."
"No really, this isn't America. The real America will show herself soon I swear."

It's only political theater, sure - the ban will probably be lifted soon. But it's an ugly show.
...

It's off topic - mod move it I know. I guess if you spend enough time somewhere (here at TMC in the S forum) eventually it feels like a kind of home, a community. And then if something traumatic happens it feels like you have to acknowledge it before you can move on.

It isn't business as usual. This isn't a normal day. I can't talk about spaceship controls without acknowledging this first.

God help us - it's got to get better. This isn't my country, what the hell is happening. F*CKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

If you are a woman or homosexual or Jew or Christian, exactly what's the reciprocity in those nations?

Or are human rights and diversity something you abhor on religious grounds?

Should we put fliers in our Embassies:

"If you are a misogynist, and want to kill gays, Jews, and Christians, Uncle Sam Needs You! We need to rebuild the Democratic Party in the USA with the correct people. If you believe elections should be abolished, it will put you higher on the list."

 

[bonnie]

As it says in the executive order, in Section 3:

"(g) Notwithstanding a suspension pursuant to subsection (c) of this section or pursuant to a Presidential proclamation described in subsection (e) of this section, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may, on a case-by-case basis, and when in the national interest, issue visas or other immigration benefits to nationals of countries for which visas and benefits are otherwise blocked."

So visas can be issued on a case-by-case basis, so I'd look to see whether visas are issued for most of these "in transit" cases today.

Wait, what? You're saying that someone with a valid green card could be admitted if they get a visa in addition to their green card ... is that also true for residents with green cards who didn't happen to be out of the country? This is gonna be a bigger mess than I originally thought.

In all seriousness, while I disagree with the unconstitutional religious test and the general nature of the order, it wouldn't have taken a whole lot of thought to specify that valid green card holders were not impacted.

 

[bonnie]

If you are a woman or homosexual or Jew or Christian, exactly what's the reciprocity in those nations?

Or are human rights and diversity something you abhor on religious grounds?

Uncalled for potshot. You know he was saying nothing of the kind. And what does that have to do with expecting our country to have a higher moral standard? There is a lot of evil and ignorance in this world, I'd prefer my country not become the shining example. I'm hoping our motto doesn't become 'They discriminate, so therefore we can, too'.