Data after Supercharging Exclusively for 10,345 miles in 3 months

[mswlogo]

I'm sure that's true and I wasn't contesting that. People are free to choose miles vs percent. As this is a public forum I simply offered the opinion that range miles displayed can vary fairly widely depending on how you charge and that displaying percent is, IMO, a better option. Feel free to disagree.

That’s not the point of the thread though

He wanted to share impact on the battery SC for first 10K mikes. which is kind of hard to see with displaying %

I get close to EPA on Model 3, X and S so miles left is pretty close and % is fairly meaningless. Even my ICE cars would report miles left when the tank was low.

 

[Dennisis]

That’s not the point of the thread though

He wanted to share impact on the battery SC for first 10K mikes. which is kind of hard to see with displaying %

I get close to EPA on Model 3, X and S so miles left is pretty close and % is fairly meaningless. Even my ICE cars would report miles left when the tank was low.

So you’re saying that displaying the range in miles must be accurate if you only supercharge? I hadn’t heard that theory. Everything I’ve read, and in my personal experience, seemed to indicate the displayed range wasn’t very accurate. But not trying to argue here, just goes against most everything I’ve learned to this point. And well I agree in theory you could get a more definitive measure by using the range in miles if that were in fact an accurate number I don’t believe it is.

 

[mswlogo]

So you’re saying that displaying the range in miles must be accurate if you only supercharge? I hadn’t heard that theory. Everything I’ve read, and in my personal experience, seemed to indicate the displayed range wasn’t very accurate. But not trying to argue here, just goes against most everything I’ve learned to this point. And well I agree in theory you could get a more definitive measure by using the range in miles if that were in fact an accurate number I don’t believe it is.

No I’m saying he is likely charging a wider range. Folks that charge every night might charge a small amount (that’s what throws calibration off). Folks that exclusively SC, charge more when they have to. They won’t stop at a supercharger every day to add 10%. Nor do they leave it plugged I.

I’m done with this stupid thread.

 

[MacO512]

why?

Not sure I see the issue you are eluding too. Please elloborate.

OP owner after 10k miles has 100% supercharger use. What will the battery be like if he keeps that up for 40k-70k miles and I were to buy it? Maybe fine, or maybe it has to be replaced many years earlier than if the battery was cared for as I and many posters here would care for it.

What about another owner who might charge the car to 100% every day for years. What about another owner that charges down to 5% each week. Would I end up with one of their cars? Probably not, but maybe. It's difficult if not impossible to know when buying used unless you personally know the original owner.

When there is basically no premium from buying new vs buying a few years old I'll stick with the new car and avoid that gamble of a $20k-30k early battery replacement. Compared to my BMW that I bought used a few years old for basically a 70% discount (pre pandemic) it doesn't make much sense to buy a used Tesla.

 

[joe.smith]

Lots of people are curious about battery degradation and Supercharging. Here is some data. I have had a MYP for three months. I have 10,345 miles, all Supercharged. The car started with 303 miles. It now has 288 miles, a 5%/15 mile loss.

My overall useage is at 289 Wh/m

The total Supercharging cost has been $1,220.33 or $0.118 per mile.

Our other daily is a Prius Prime. Without plugging it in, I get about 56 mpg, upwards of 70mpg when I drive home from work in traffic. At 56 mph at $4.79 a gallon, that's $0.103 per mile.

Supercharging rates were lower when I first got the car. They increased to $0.46kWh in NY. In PA, where I also charge, the rates have been as low as $0.30 kWh.

You know what I like most about your post? You presented the facts, "just the facts, ma'am." No opinion, analysis, or other fodder. I, for one, appreciate you providing this data.

(I feel obliged to say due to the inherent lack of face-to-face, non-verbal communication that comes with the Internet, there is NO sarcasm in my response, implied or otherwise.)

 

[Fourdoor]

No I’m saying he is likely charging a wider range. Folks that charge every night might charge a small amount (that’s what throws calibration off). Folks that exclusively SC, charge more when they have to. They won’t stop at a supercharger every day to add 10%. Nor do they leave it plugged I.

I’m done with this stupid thread.

Glad you are done since this goes against everything I have read or experienced myself. Not letting the car sleep at different charge levels leads to BMS calibration problems. It has nothing to do with how much you charge. If you leave your target charge level the same all the time and plug in at the same time after having driven the same amount, your car will always sleep at the same charge level... so I guess you could get the mistaken impression that it is due to only charging a small amount.

Later,

Keith

PS: Tesla has the only BMS that gets confused by having an owner with routine consistent behavior.

PPS: BTW, thanks to the OP for this data, we can all use more data

 

[Physicslawyer]

interesting.

I've charged at home except to 3 times. Similar amount of degradation on home charging.

avg usage is 270 wh/mi

Sometimes more data = more stress. I am not worried at all. Just enjoying miles of smiles.

Mine is 269 Wh/mi, I checked yesterday and can't update my original post.

 

[fiehlsport]

Good stuff. Just shows how crazy efficient the Prius really is, even running on gas. The MY should be a little less efficient, just due to the shape. If charged at home, the cost to run would've been crazy cheap, so this all makes sense.

 

[Physicslawyer]

Thanks for sharing! From what I've seen/heard, apparently frequent supercharging is not only a battery degradation issue (which may be a non-issue), but it can lead to early battery failure and replacement before extreme degradation

I'm giving this car back and getting another one soon. I have free Supercharging and get 4k miles per month. I would NEVER do this to a car I was hoping would last a few hundred thousand miles. I might get another MYP or a MS plaid or MX, not sure yet.

I drive 50k miles per year. I doubt the car would last the 60 months/250k miles without needing a new battery after warranty and maybe a drive unit. I'm paying monthly the equivalent of financing the car (plus a little extra for my crazy useage) and have the Supercharging, it's always under warranty, if it breaks, I don't need to deal with Tesla- they would just give me another one. New tires are not my problem. I can change vehicles every few months (M3P or MS, MX, including plaid). This is the first time I have not out right purchased a car. Based on my useage, this seems like the way to go.

They are asking 80k for this car to buy it out. I had one on order from Tesla and tried to push delivery and they cancelled. Then I got into this situation.

Originally, had I taken delivery in February, I was planning on driving it 15k miles per year, and driving my Prius Prime for the rest of the miles. It's been awesome using the MYP as a daily instead. My husband has been using the Prius as a daily instead of the WRX we have (premium and 25 mpg).

 

[Physicslawyer]

This is why I don't want to buy a used Tesla.

I wouldn't buy a used Tesla either. I'm paying for up to 12k miles and then getting another one.

 

[Physicslawyer]

She.

Thanks. Everyone assumes male.

 

[mswlogo]

Glad you are done since this goes against everything I have read or experienced myself. Not letting the car sleep at different charge levels leads to BMS calibration problems. It has nothing to do with how much you charge. If you leave your target charge level the same all the time and plug in at the same time after having driven the same amount, your car will always sleep at the same charge level... so I guess you could get the mistaken impression that it is due to only charging a small amount.

Later,

Keith

PS: Tesla has the only BMS that gets confused by having an owner with routine consistent behavior.

PPS: BTW, thanks to the OP for this data, we can all use more data

You just listed all the things that cause poor calibration. Those things also, all never happen while supercharging. So I was claiming his calibration, on exclusive SuperCharging, is probably accurate.

I’m sorry that’s a challenge for you to understand.

 

[Physicslawyer]

I drive 120 miles daily to work. On weekends, we go to a vacation home. So, figure 1k miles per week. I left law to teach, so I'm off now, but driving all over (end of June was last day at school- lawyer/physics teacher hence, physicslawyer)

4/15 38% to 90% $14.10- 268 miles
4/16 56% to 90% 96 miles $9.80- 269 miles
4/16 56% (84% house, 60 miles) $6.72
27%/80 miles 8:52 to 9:20 $16.92 238= 158 miles
4/18 33% to 98 miles 4:32 to 5:04 86% to 257 $16.66 159 miles
4/19 4:01 41% 125 miles to 243 82% 4:33 $13.64
4/20 4:09 37% 108 miles to 267 90% $16.67 159
=$97.57 week 1
4/21 69% 206 to 86% to 254 $5.17
4/21 41% 122 miles 5:56 to 90% 6:28 267= 145 miles $13.18
4/22 54% 160 3:08 to 81% 242 3:33 $7.82
4/24 21%/61 to 76%/227 $15.40
4/24 19%/57 9:50 to 10:11 72%/214 $16.63
4/25 30%/90 4:20 82%/242 $16.12 4:48
4/26 38%/114 4:41 83%/247 $14.02 5:08 133 miles
4/27 38%/112 4:52 84%248 $14.27 5:20
=$102.61 week 2
4/28 35%/103 4:40 296/100%/5:53 $20.39 193 miles
4/29 left 294/98% work 225/76%
4/29 68%/202 3:12 85%/251 $4.97
4/29 38%/113 5:42 $0.34kw 88%/261 $13.89, 66%/197
4/30 58%/170 .34kw 10:30 to 93%/276 $9.49
5/1 71%/212 Lititz to 47%/141 to 82%/243 $12
5/1 30%/88 9:30 to 75%/22 $14.50 9:56
5/2 30%/89 5:58 74%/220 $13.65 6:20
5/3 47%/139 1:09 to 90%/267 1:41 $13.26
5/4 50%/149 to 90%/266 $12.43
=$103.57 week three 2,699 miles
5/5 49%/146 4:50 $16.13 5:43 100%/295 miles
5/6 69%/205 to 85%/252 $4.87 3:37
5/6 40%/117 6:52 90%/266 $13.64
5/7 49%/146 2:08 87%/256 2:43 $10.81
5/8 53%/158 4:31 86%/255 $8.92 4:55
5/8 27%/79 7:53 to 99%/293 $22.70
5/9 36%/106 8:01 to 86%/256 8:32 $15.79
5/10 41%/121 4:47 to 86%/253 5:14 $16.08
5/11 35%/105 4:50 to 86%/256 5:20 $19.14
=$128.48
Month 1=$432.23 (week 4)
5/12 38%/111 5:56 $.46/kWh 100%/296 $24.04
5/13 71%/212 3:25 $.45kWh 85%/253 3:37 $5.09
5/13 44%/130 6:06 99%/295 7:01 $14.19
5/15 34%/102 4:14 to 4:55 92%/274 $15.28
5/15 40%/120 8:15 to 90%/267 $18.14 8:49 Q10
5/16 51%/150 4:33 to 92%/273 5:06 $15.18
5/17 44%/130 7:52 to 86%/254 $15.71
5/18 43%/128 to 84%/251 $15.54
=Week 1 $123.17
5/19 43%/128 4:32 to 95%/282 5:18 $19.51 4,880
5/20 67%/198 3:34 to 81%/241 $5.41 3:45
5/20 39%/117 6:27 88%/260 $12.56 7:03
5/21 44%/131 3:06 to 87%/256 3:33 $12.16
5/22 61%/181 3:22 to 89%/264 $7.56 3:44
5/22 38%/111 7:10 to 84%/249 7:37 $17.02
5/23 42%/123 5:30 to 83%/244 $15.08 5:55
5/24 42%/122 4:34 to 85%/249 $15.83 5:02
5/25 40%/119 5:52 to 94%/277 $19.80
=Week 2 $124.93 5,747 miles (6 weeks)
5/30 52%/154 8:52 to 83%/248 9:19 $11.91
5/31 44%/130 6:43 89%/264 $16.87 7:15
6/1 48%/143 5:00 to 85%/251 $13.40 5:23
6/2 46%/136 4:57 to 5:40 96%/285 $18.47
6/3 33%/99 to 90%/268 $15.02
6/5 51%/152 4:49 to 77%/231 5:10 $8.05 this
6/6 49%/147 5:34 to 80%/239 $8.19 5:53
6/6 25%/73 8:41 to 77%/231 $19.72 9:05
6/7 35%/104 4:55 to 85%/254 5:26 $18.66
6/7 68%/201 7:47 to 85%/253 8:01 $6
6/8 42%/125 to 80%/240 $14.32
6/9 34%/102 5:18 to 95%/284 6:06 $23.01
6/10 28%/83 to 6:16 to 100%/298 7:19 $19.00
=$192.62 Weeks 3 and 4 (didn't drive a weekend)
7,411
6/12 35%/105 3:14 to 82%/246 $12.73 3:49
6/12 30%/89 7:46 to 7:50 43%/128 $5
6/12 25%/73 to 9:10 to 75%/221 $18.71 9:34
Month 2=$477.16
6/13 Month 3 (Until July 12)
6/13 39%/115 4:40 to 85%/251 5:08 $17.09
6/14 47%/137 5:20 to 82%/241 $12.79 5:40
6/15 21%/64 8:46 to 85%/251 $23.59 9:23
6/16 49%/145 6:55 to 100%/295 7:51 $18.63
6/17 27%/80 4:48 to 99%/292 5:51 $19.06
6/20 $9.25 98 to 198 miles
6/20 47%/139 6:38 to 87%/255 $10.16 7:05
6/20 35%/103 9:30 83%/245 $17.55 9:58
6/21 41%/121 4:28 to 88%/260 $17.38 5:01
6/21 73%/214 to 89%/261 $5.68
6/22 49%/145 4:58 to 93%/275 5:33 $16.1
=$167.28
6/23 48%/143 3:50 to 97%/286 4:32 $17.82
6/24 29%/87 2:14 to 97%/285 3:02 $18.00
6/28 44%/131 to 86%/252 $11.53
6/29 24%/70 7:14 to 87%/254 $15.43
7/1 25%/74 1:49 79%/230 2:14 $15.72
7/1 22%/63 to 69%/200 $11.56
7/1 54%/156 11:37
7/2 41%/117 to 90%/259 %13.24
7/9 25%/71 1:54 to 82%/238 $16.27
7/10 68%/196 4:08 to 94%/269 $7.03 4:33
7/10 93%/269 4:40 to 100%/288 4:59 $2.03
=$310.94 Month 3

 

[gt2690b]

Lots of people are curious about battery degradation and Supercharging. Here is some data. I have had a MYP for three months. I have 10,345 miles, all Supercharged. The car started with 303 miles. It now has 288 miles, a 5%/15 mile loss.

My overall useage is at 289 Wh/m

The total Supercharging cost has been $1,220.33 or $0.118 per mile.

Our other daily is a Prius Prime. Without plugging it in, I get about 56 mpg, upwards of 70mpg when I drive home from work in traffic. At 56 mph at $4.79 a gallon, that's $0.103 per mile.

Supercharging rates were lower when I first got the car. They increased to $0.46kWh in NY. In PA, where I also charge, the rates have been as low as $0.30 kWh.

This sucks.. supercharger rates are worse than gas prices

 

[fiehlsport]

This sucks.. supercharger rates are worse than gas prices

OP is comparing it to a super-efficient Prius Plug-in Hybrid though. Supercharging is still cheaper when compared to mainstream gas-only vehicles, especially SUVs and CUVs.

 

[gt2690b]

OP is comparing it to a super-efficient Prius Plug-in Hybrid though. Supercharging is still cheaper when compared to mainstream gas-only vehicles, especially SUVs and CUVs.

When you convert the energy price without regard to any vehicles it is well over $10/gallon.. it's bullshit

Example: Laramie, WY = $.42/kwh * 33.7kwh/gallon = $14.15 / gallon of gas equivalent

I could buy a 100kw gas generator and stick it at a gas station.. charge $.337 cents ($10/gal equiv) and make a killing on just burning gas for EV's... something is wrong with the supercharger rates

 

[Jorge Lopez]

Keep in mind this is based on what the BMS is able to determine based on charging habits, usage, etc... This number is likely to increase and decrease over time. This will slowly drive you mad - I always recommend switching to Percent vs miles and leaving it there, much easier to live with...

Definitely is driving me nuts, my MYP has only 2600 miles on it, I only charged it 3 times at superchargers the rest has been with wall connector... Before 80% was 240 miles, now is 229 miles... my OCD is definitely killing me.

 

[Physicslawyer]

OP is comparing it to a super-efficient Prius Plug-in Hybrid though. Supercharging is still cheaper when compared to mainstream gas-only vehicles, especially SUVs and CUVs.

I think it's close enough to the Prius that they are the same. I was looking at buying either a Mercedes E450 Coupe or a Porsche Macan, both of which take Premium and get poor gas mileage. The Tesla is much more efficient than any comparable luxury car or SUV.

 

[Physicslawyer]

When you convert the energy price without regard to any vehicles it is well over $10/gallon.. it's bullshit

Example: Laramie, WY = $.42/kwh * 33.7kwh/gallon = $14.15 / gallon of gas equivalent

I could buy a 100kw gas generator and stick it at a gas station.. charge $.337 cents ($10/gal equiv) and make a killing on just burning gas for EV's... something is wrong with the supercharger rates

The rates went up compared to when I first got the car. In NY, rates are now $0.46 kWh. In PA, it was $0.30 kWh in State College. I think it's $0.42 kWh in Lancaster. We are going to Costco later, so I'll check the rate of the Lancaster Supercharger.

 

[Physicslawyer]

I believe Tesla can replace a failed battery pack with one that has been refurbished (if one is available.)

That concerns me also. I was going to get delivery in February and was assuming 20k for a battery at some point. But, you get a refurbished battery where only the failed cells are replaced. What if another is ready to go? The warranty isn't that long either.