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David Noland suggests Model S pedal placement is a safety hazard

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by jbt100, Mar 24, 2014.

  1. jbt100

    jbt100 Member

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    Brake and Accelerator at the same time

    I saw this article today http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1091002_life-with-tesla-model-s-is-p...
    I had the same problem with a Miata conversion to electric. My wife will not drive my Miata now becouse she accidently pushed the accelerator and the brake at the same time. An electric car will easily overcome any braking and move you forward as it did with my wife right through an intersection. fortunately there was no traffic but it scared her to the point she will not drive the car now. I think it would be wise for Tesla to fix this problem immediately as we all know what happened to Toyota with the accelerator problem. I ended up moving the accelerator more to the right to solve the problem and it hasn't happened since but my wife won't move at all on driving the car.

    I also wonder if anyone else has this problem with there Tesla as I'm a future buyer but not if this is going to be a problem.:scared:
     
  2. sirhodjibob

    sirhodjibob Member

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    While you can push both pedals at the time, the car will not allow you to accelerate. The car beeps loudly when you're doing so and a warning appears on the cluster.
     
  3. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    It does take a few seconds for the power to cut out when you do this. I've hit both pedals on occasion, especially when wearing winter boots. But I notice what I'm doing immediately and simply tilt my foot to the left so it pushes on the brake, not the accelerator. That's all it takes; you don't have to lift and stomp again.

    I agree that the brake pedal should really be raised a bit above the gas pedal, to help prevent this sort of thing.
     
  4. jbt100

    jbt100 Member

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    I'm interested to know why it did this then with the author of this article? Maybe a rolling stop type of situation? He states it had happened 3 or 4 times to him.
     
  5. Zextraterrestrial

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    he has really slow reaction time?

    as soon as you are pushing the brake and hit the accelerator the car lets you know.
    not a problem
     
  6. Obsoletion

    Obsoletion Member

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    Do the brakes really stop working when both pedals are pressed? I am going to try this today, but that doesnt make sense. I could understand the accelerator not being active when the brake pedal is pressed...
     
  7. jbt100

    jbt100 Member

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    A problem if you have slow reaction times and are like my wife and many other people who when they feel the car accelerating automatic push harder on the pedal. Old people have this problem a lot.
     
  8. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    It's actually useful to have both brake and accelerator work at the same time, I wouldn't want it disabled as the Green Car blog poster asked. When I park on my driveway which has a steep upward incline, and want to pull up into the garage, I put my foot on the brake, put it in drive, and use the accelerator as I let my foot off the brake. Otherwise the car rolls downhill before going uphill. Likewise when I park in our cul-de-sac that has a downward incline to the curb, I need to use both brake and accelerator when I put it in reverse to back away from the curb. Maybe the hill hold feature in 5.9 will lessen the need for this, we'll see.
     
  9. Zextraterrestrial

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    :eek:

    should not be driving?
     
  10. sirhodjibob

    sirhodjibob Member

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    Something tells me the writer of that article never was a fan of heel toe shifting :tongue:
     
  11. jbt100

    jbt100 Member

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    Agree but they do :eek:
     
  12. liuping

    liuping Active Member

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    I have never accidentally pressed both pedals. When I have done it on purpose, a warning sound and message was produced. That's more than any other car I've owned.

    Maybe people with wide feet should replace the break pedal with something smaller or offset to the left?

    For most people I don't think it is an issue.
     
  13. liuping

    liuping Active Member

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    The Toyota "floor matts jamming under the accelerator issue" is a real design flaw, not user error. It did happen to me once, but I figured out what was happening before things got out of control.
     
  14. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    David Noland has penned an article:

    Life With Tesla Model S: Is Pedal Placement A Safety Hazard?

    In it, he suggests that if both brake and accelerator pedals are pressed at the same time, the power to the motor is not cut. Some comments, in response, say it is.

    What is the truth? It seems to me that if the brake is pressed, motor power should be cut (erring on caution).

    Or is it just a combination of cold weather limited regen, traction control and/or ABS (and one of which can affect the level of braking applied by the vehicle)?
     
  15. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    Power is indeed cut if pressure is applied to both the accelerator and brake. I've tested this myself, and there's also video evidence of it--last I saw was from the "Get Amped" test drives.
     
  16. kishdude

    kishdude P #130

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    Also,

    there is a loud audible warning as well as a message in the dashboard that says both pedals are pressed so this is really a non-issue.
     
  17. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Not too surprised he'd write something like this given the other articles he's written. Has he written and positive articles about his ownership experience and the Model S or are they all negative (they missed their Supercharger summer rollout..etc)
     
  18. DrComputer

    DrComputer Member

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    Pedal placement IS a problem and I, and others, have mentioned it before. Yes, with enough pressure on both pedals it will cut the power, but only after a specific distance of the pedal. The bigger issue is that since the pedals are not offset enough if your foot catches both pedals you might not press hard enough to actually stop the car at the rate you expect thereby potentially causing an accident. This is something Tesla should fix. One would have hoped they would have fixed it by now. When I brought it up to Jerome in an e-mail before I got a very corporate legal answer:

    "Model S pedal spacing is within industry standards and has not been modified in the current production line. Although we disagree with your view regarding its safety, in the interest of customer safety which is of paramount importance to our company, the vehicle already includes response modifications in its firmware for situations in which both pedals are used."
     
  19. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    and the power is dangerous.... You can get going really fast in this thing.
    oh, and the brakes are dangerous.... You could probably detach a retina with the stopping power.

    It is amazing what we can get used to and how fast we can get used to it. I drove my Maranello the other day as it has been lacking any semblance of love over the last year. Its fast but not as fast as the MS. It stops but not as well as the MS. The V12 will most certainly overpower the brakes. It is a lovely beast and probably dangerous if you view it from just the right direction.

    The MS is not to be believed from a safety and security standpoint especially given it has the capability to get you into soooo much trouble oh so quickly; and yet we find something to complain about.

    I, for one, find absolutely no problems what so ever with the pedal placement and have heard the "chime" one or two times since taking delivery of what instantly became my daily driver.

    I do not want to be rude here but I simply do not buy this pedal thing.
     
  20. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

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    Mr. Noland has a habit of not properly researching what he is talking about.
    He is probably the last actual owner of a Model S that I would trust for information about the Model S.

    If I am trying to depress the brake, yet also am pressing the accelerator it will brake. If I lightly tap, and happen to hit both, it will give me a warning but not brake, as it shouldn't. I don't want to come to a quick stop in traffic if I happen to hit both pedals.
    If I need to stop, I will have passed the minimum pressure required to actually brake.
     

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