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DC Charging - User case 350kW vs 50kW

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So I have had a few chargers DC whilst on the road, most have been short duration as I mostly home AC charge. Just thought I would put it out there for discussion/comment on what I have come across and hopefully save some peeps money. Some might think the fastest capable speed chargers 250 or 350kW will give the best bang for buck but this may not be the case for many? See the stats from the small experiment I did.

Today I used the brand new Evie 50kW charger in Castle Hill and approx 2 weeks ago I used the Evie 350kW at Seven Hills. Both days the Sydney temp was around the same. Battery was pre heated for a short time for each session but no way near the proper battery temp, max about 20 minutes, which more than likely really affected the 350kW speed.

For reference my car is a 2022 M3 RWD LFP battery.

Today EVIE 50kW Castle Hill:
SOC 56%
17 min
13.904 kWh
cost $5.56
max speed as reported by car was 48kW

2 weeks ago EVIE 350kW Seven Hills:
SOC 68%
17 min
15.496 kWh
cost $9.30
max speed as reported by car was 98kW

My thoughts are depending on SOC and if the battery has been pre-heated the DC charger speed/cost ratio should be considered.
A 50kW charger not when road tripping could be a goto?
 
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Model 3 SR charge curve.png
 
scully's graph nails it.
But you really only gain the benefit of higher speed chargers at low SOC.

Repeat the experiment at 5% and the results will be very different.
Not quite.. Hit a fast charger with a hot LFP battery at a higher SOC and watch an LFP pack suck 90kW at 80% SOC. They seem to be able to suck a lot of juice for a few minutes even at a relatively high SOC.

TeslaBjorns' post with data.
 
Scully. Is this for the 60kwh LFP battery though?

My car can maintain 50kw at 85%, though I think dependant on starting point. Maybe temperature dependant. Will see if I can dig out the battery temps for the grafana graph data.


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Both of these are the Bathurst supercharger. I had thought the slower charge on the 23rd was due to not pre-conditioning, but looking at it now it seems more like classic power sharing. It is still as 52kw at 86% before I left. Went to 100% on the 28th, as although the SC was empty the cafe was full and took 30 minutes to get me my food.
 
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Yeah there are quirks with the LFP battery and the charge curve seems to be very different. I plan to do a few more and try to get the SOC and temps the same and include a 150kW charger. A work in progress.
I know everyone thinks about charging on road trips but with more Tesla's on the road and a boat load coming the small what I call 'opportune chargers' in and around the city may need to be handled differently which I know many here already know.
 
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50kw at 85%, though I think dependant on starting point. Maybe temperature dependant. Will see if I can dig out the battery temps for the grafana graph data.
Although charging data is part of the tesla streaming API data the temperature data comes from scanmytesla bluetooth phone connection, as I was not always need my car the data points are a little more scant.
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Average cell temp on the left. 23rd did indeed start out at a cool 35/36 C, the 40C reading is the approach to Bathurst, cooled down driving in.
The 28th started out around 44 C and quickly heated to 48C as it was able to charge at the full 130kw before, presumably, temperature cooling kicks in.
 
So I have had a few chargers DC whilst on the road, most have been short duration as I mostly home AC charge. Just thought I would put it out there for discussion/comment on what I have come across and hopefully save some peeps money. Some might think the fastest capable speed chargers 250 or 350kW will give the best bang for buck but this may not be the case for many?

The best charger is the one that’s available :D
 
I drive a lot of kms and I use a mix of at-home trickle charging at 12 amps, shopping centre three-phase, DC50kW, superchargers, and DC350kW chargers. I'm with @Vostok here - the best charger is the one that's available.

Think in terms of rollouts.

Chargefox's network of 350kW chargers were funded by ARENA's 'Advancing Renewables' program, from October 2018. It was basically a mirror image of the Tesla Supercharger network at the time. Almost entirely regional areas, to support long road trips. And two of their sites have solar & batteries & provide grid services for side income.

Evie's network of 350kW chargers were funded by ARENA's 'National Ultrafast' program, from May 2019. It was basically a gap-filling exercise, again to support long road trips. It was split into two main parts - the suburban-regional interface (e.g. Penrith NSW for the Blue Mountains, Seven Hills NSW for Bells Line of Road & Putty Road, Epping VIC for the Hume Highway), and intermediate towns half way between the Advancing Renewables/Chargefox towns (e.g. Tarcutta to fill the gap between Gundagai and Albury-Wodonga).

Evie's network of 50kW chargers were funded by ARENA's 'Future Fuels Fund' program, from June 2021. It was an entirely separate program with an entirely separate purpose. It was meant to be relatively low cost high availability chargers in capital cities and larger regional cities, for EV owners to use to supplement at-home charging or replace it for apartment dwellers or on-street parkers. Put slower chargers at places you will probably spend the better part of an hour anyway - shopping centres, the Hungry Jacks at Cabramatta. They're not as fast as the ones you'd use for a road trip, but they don't have to be.

The latter serves an entirely different purpose to the first two - even when they're, what, two suburbs away? Seven Hills 350kW is meant to be convenient to the end of the M2. Penrith/Jamisontown 350kW is meant to be convenient to the M4. Castle Hill and Schofields are nearby shopping centres that aren't especially convenient for through traffic but are absolutely convenient for local usage.

Now, I'm an outlier on every metric. I'll use them all, based on my needs at the time. If I'm getting a haircut at Kirrawee in the Woolworths centre, I'll plug into the Chargefox three-phase at Woolworths for an hour or two. If I'm just doing groceries at Kirrawee and don't plan to spend serious time there that week, I'll plug into the supercharger across the road, and by the time I've finished up at Aldi and Colesworths, the car is well and truly charged. Now, I don't live anywhere near Kirrawee, but I'm in the shire once a week, so I just happen to get my haircuts in a place I can easily charge the car. Though that habit pre-dates the opening of the Supercharger.
 
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I'll be honest, I didn't even realise Evie charged differently for the 350 vs 50 chargers. (At least in my mind I just assumed it was all 60c now, better than thinking it was all 40c)

Kind of makes me a bit annoyed at the lack of pre-conditioning leading to a ~40-60kw max rate on a cold morning recently. Not as bad as the leaf charging next to me at 6kw though.

In the end, if you need a charge you kind of just need to pay it. Until/unless they co-locate 50s with 350s, at least it should encourage slower charging cars to use the cheaper charger where possible.
 
Kind of makes me a bit annoyed at the lack of pre-conditioning leading to a ~40-60kw max rate on a cold morning recently. Not as bad as the leaf charging next to me at 6kw though.

I asked this in the software thread - is Tesla smart enough to precondition the battery if you Nav to a third-party DCFC?

It does preconditioning if you Nav to a Supercharger, and further it slaps your wrist if you go to a supercharger and charge without using the Nav, you are rewarded with a message that if it had known you were going to do that, the car would have preconditioned.

But if you Nav to Evie or Chargefox? I‘ve never tried it, because I know where those chargers are so don’t use the Nav.
 
Whenever we plug in and it's cold the car pops up the message, but none of the evie chargers are in the "3 sparks" charging address list so you can't do it.

So I think the car would do it if you could find the charger in the list.

Note this message is even customised from "Next Time - Navigate to Supercharger", so it's been specifically coded to do it.

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Yeah for sure on the comments agree with them all. Don't worry I don't drive all over Sydney trying to find a charger to save a quid.
I am just running a experiment for myself and putting it out there for others that are interested in seeing what the difference is in $$$ when having choice to charge at different speeds.
Call me mad but its just curiosity and trying it real world for the LFP battery.
 
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