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Dead Battery Experience

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And I at least was able to get it into tow mode, nice guy helped me push it... Up-Hill into the stall.
Nice to know that while in 'tow mode' the car can be pushed like any car in 'N' neutral mode
and parking break released (even Up-hill!!!).
Nice police officer drove us to a hotel for the night, the car sat on the side of the freeway.
I have seen police car pushing disabled car on the freeway, may be it would have been too much
to ask but instead to give you a ride to an hotel, I wonder if in this king of emergency situation
pushing your can for the next 3 miles would have been a possible and simpler option?
 
I appreciate the good will and advice from everyone.

BTW I retraced my wife's tracks before picking me up and we got 175 miles from our 90% charge. I can't believe I didn't think to look at mileage since last charge.

I want to be clear I don't recommend testing your limit often. It can be dangerous and it is not good for your battery. I get it about slowing down. I have done it many times. It is an extremely boring but effective solution to more range.

I consider my experience a single data point on MS battery performance. Here is what I see as that data.
1) THERE IS NO RESERVE!
2) Range can be off by 9 miles. IMO it should read zero before going into shutdown mode. That allows you to be looking for an exit or pullover spot.
2) Navigation can be up to 2% off. It showed -2% and I was -4%. I still trust navigation the most.
3) Owners should plan at least a 50 mile (80km) cushion into trips. I.e. With my 244 range, I should not expect more than 194 miles without charging. From my experience, I increase that by 15% to 65 miles when the outside temp is below 15F.
4) If you go into shut down mode, you cannot put the car in neutral. IMO you should be able to do this as long as you have 12V power. This makes getting a tow more difficult. The tow truck must have a generator to charge enough to use neutral or a jack and rollers to put under the car.
5) You only get about one mile after shut down mode starts and the power goes down quick.
6) Tesla is an awesome road trip car when used with the common sense of having some margin. Trips are only going to become easier as more chargers of all type are added.

Someone asked about my tires. I have 21 inch.

I hope my experience helps others avoid running out, and if you do, what to expect.

1 and 2) Yes, 0 is 0 and sometimes may be less than 0. (As you saw) If you haven't discharged the pack below 10% in a while and haven't charged to 100% in a while, the car may not know how much energy is left. It doesn't know where the bottom of the battery is. Also worth noting, once you're below about 8% SOC, you lose a significant amount of energy in the battery and inverter as heat due to higher impedance in the cells and higher current required to get the same power out of the inverter, and this can't be measured as it doesn't pass through the current shunt in the battery that the car uses to determine how much energy has been pulled out of the battery and put back in.

Other 2) Navigation can be off by a bit, but usually if you're continuing to do the same thing it'll continue to predict the same thing. If it starts to predict you'll arrive at less than 4% SOC, you will like arrive at 2% SOC due to the heat losses mentioned above if you're still on the highway at 6%. In those cases, SLOW THE CRAP DOWN. If it's predicting you'll arrive at 7%, though, you'll likely arrive at 7% unless you drive like a demon and constantly pass people.

3) A 50 mile cushion may be excessive between superchargers (lower rate of charge on arrival) but a 25-30 mile buffer (based on PROJECTED RANGE over the last 30 miles) is definitely worth having if it's cold, may rain, or a few other factors. (Speeding being the big one)

4) As you learned, tow mode is basically neutral. Neutral is basically just disengaging the parking brake and energizing the drive line, and neutral achieves the same thing without actually energizing the driveline.

5) You may get one mile, you may get 10 feet, you may get 6 miles. This all depends on the true current SOC.

6) I've been using my Model S for road trips for work, and i've put 6000 miles on it in the last 3 weeks. More often than not, I can leave a supercharger 10 minutes before it says I can, and then I get to my next one between 9% and 4% SOC, depending on how fast I drive. If I do 70MPH it's closer to 9% and 80MPH will get me there at 4% SOC. When things start looking scary, I'll just bump the cruise down 5MPH and wait for the prediction to update. More often than not, slowing down 5MPH from 80MPH will save about 2% over a 140 mile trip, and then 70MPH will get another 3%. This is also on hot days with the AC running at 70F and no rain. During the winter, with rain, I'll use a much much larger buffer (20%) and go slower. My average supercharger stop, at a correctly functioning supercharger (that's another story...) is about 15-20 minutes. This means a normally 7.5 hour trip is about a 9 hour trip, so the overhead for charging is very small, and the stops make the drives much less tiring. (Even without AP) When I explain this to some of my "Go, go, go!" friends they nearly die at the idea of "losing" 90 minutes, but they're also the kind to fill up, dive 500 miles at once, not drink anything, not eat, and not stop to pee. For NORMAL people, though, the Model S is a fantastic road trip car and makes driving a true pleasure that's not tiring at all. (And if it does get tiring, a 45 minute supercharger nap will usually make it better.)
 
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Something else, if you're going to go on a long trip, do a 100% charge! If nothing else, it'll give you some range after you arrive to find dinner and the like, but it may save you extra stress. There's good reason to avoid full charges on a daily basis, but none I can think of when starting a trip.
 
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Nice to know that while in 'tow mode' the car can be pushed like any car in 'N' neutral mode
and parking break released (even Up-hill!!!).

I have seen police car pushing disabled car on the freeway, may be it would have been too much
to ask but instead to give you a ride to an hotel, I wonder if in this king of emergency situation
pushing your can for the next 3 miles would have been a possible and simpler option?
For starters, the car refused to go into tow mode, and i tried putting it into tow mode the moment the car came to a complete stop. That made things excessively more difficult. Cop would have "Pulled" us off the freeway, however, the first release cars way back did not have the tow-eye hook that screws into the front bumper. and no where else to put the tow chain without causing more damage then it's worth. And lastly, it was snowing.

If I couldn't get a tow truck in the morning, I was planning on grabbing a generator at Home Depot, and then taking a taxi back to the car to get it at least off the freeway. Heck, it would have been cheaper then a tow truck was...
 
Our solution to range anxiety when touring longer distances is to allow 100km of range as buffer when planning charging station stops and to charge to the full 100% of battery capacity at each stop. Our pace may be slower but Superchargers tend to be in convenient places to waste some time. The 100 km reserve buffer is for the case when a Supercharger is unavailable and I need to find an alternate source.

We always carry a CHAeMo adapter and enough charger access cards, adapters and extensions to connect to almost any power source.

We watch the consumption chart just in case head winds are hurting us and only once did we reduce the risk by stopping at a Nissan dealer for a charge. They treated us to coffee while we waited so no hardship.

My backup to the backup would be the Plugshare App for a nearby EV owner.

Pushing the limits of battery capacity is like flat lining for fun. We prefer mitigating risk when we travel. Then again, we are older.

That response is very Canadian! In America, flat lining for fun is a national sport.... We call it "freedom".... for example, "crap, we just drove too far and we have the freedom to walk 12 miles into town again"
 
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To the experienced, the OP was pushing the limits. Fine if for fun but not normally and not when you don't know where several plugs are.

Always charge to 100% - that is much better for the battery than arriving with a very low charge.

To take that and extrapolate to leaving a 50 mile buffer is a bit of an overreaction. I have several trips under my belt with family. 20 miles is appropriate when you know where you are. I ignore the slow down messages all the time - but you have to know what you are doing. Just like I ignore a gas light on a car I know.

Slowing down is huge. You can literally get double the distance by dropping your speed.

Also - 21 inches is key. P models are key. My car (70D) gets rated at 68 mph or so and I can kill it at 60 mph. Just a note so people don't go extrapolating P cars with 21 to the non performance 19s. They are not the same!
 
1 and 2) Yes, 0 is 0 and sometimes may be less than 0. (As you saw) If you haven't discharged the pack below 10% in a while and haven't charged to 100% in a while, the car may not know how much energy is left. It doesn't know where the bottom of the battery is. Also worth noting, once you're below about 8% SOC, you lose a significant amount of energy in the battery and inverter as heat due to higher impedance in the cells and higher current required to get the same power out of the inverter, and this can't be measured as it doesn't pass through the current shunt in the battery that the car uses to determine how much energy has been pulled out of the battery and put back in.

Other 2) Navigation can be off by a bit, but usually if you're continuing to do the same thing it'll continue to predict the same thing. If it starts to predict you'll arrive at less than 4% SOC, you will like arrive at 2% SOC due to the heat losses mentioned above if you're still on the highway at 6%. In those cases, SLOW THE CRAP DOWN. If it's predicting you'll arrive at 7%, though, you'll likely arrive at 7% unless you drive like a demon and constantly pass people.

3) A 50 mile cushion may be excessive between superchargers (lower rate of charge on arrival) but a 25-30 mile buffer (based on PROJECTED RANGE over the last 30 miles) is definitely worth having if it's cold, may rain, or a few other factors. (Speeding being the big one)

4) As you learned, tow mode is basically neutral. Neutral is basically just disengaging the parking brake and energizing the drive line, and neutral achieves the same thing without actually energizing the driveline.

5) You may get one mile, you may get 10 feet, you may get 6 miles. This all depends on the true current SOC.

6) I've been using my Model S for road trips for work, and i've put 6000 miles on it in the last 3 weeks. More often than not, I can leave a supercharger 10 minutes before it says I can, and then I get to my next one between 9% and 4% SOC, depending on how fast I drive. If I do 70MPH it's closer to 9% and 80MPH will get me there at 4% SOC. When things start looking scary, I'll just bump the cruise down 5MPH and wait for the prediction to update. More often than not, slowing down 5MPH from 80MPH will save about 2% over a 140 mile trip, and then 70MPH will get another 3%. This is also on hot days with the AC running at 70F and no rain. During the winter, with rain, I'll use a much much larger buffer (20%) and go slower. My average supercharger stop, at a correctly functioning supercharger (that's another story...) is about 15-20 minutes. This means a normally 7.5 hour trip is about a 9 hour trip, so the overhead for charging is very small, and the stops make the drives much less tiring. (Even without AP) When I explain this to some of my "Go, go, go!" friends they nearly die at the idea of "losing" 90 minutes, but they're also the kind to fill up, dive 500 miles at once, not drink anything, not eat, and not stop to pee. For NORMAL people, though, the Model S is a fantastic road trip car and makes driving a true pleasure that's not tiring at all. (And if it does get tiring, a 45 minute supercharger nap will usually make it better.)
I agree with your observations. I am as disappointed in having a rating of 220 in the morning and only getting 175. To be fair, my wife drove it to work for the day and then picked me up. So there was some vampire draw in there. But - I got 45 miles less than rated. Based on that 50 miles of cushion doesn't sound excessive.
 
I agree with your observations. I am as disappointed in having a rating of 220 in the morning and only getting 175. To be fair, my wife drove it to work for the day and then picked me up. So there was some vampire draw in there. But - I got 45 miles less than rated. Based on that 50 miles of cushion doesn't sound excessive.

Rated and ideal range both go out the window when it’s cold or it starts raining. You’ll often find that your projected range based on a 30 mile average is going to be far less than rated range in the cold. On a hot day, it should be closer, but a strong headwind can make that go out the window as well.

As most of my driving is on the interstate, my projected range is darn near accurate to the mile... usually. Hence my low buffer.
 
I find threads like this somewhat interesting because I really don’t understand why people rely on estimated range so much in electric cars. ICE cars have had “distance to empty” range indicators for years now and I think everyone realizes that they are not 100% accurate and they do not rely on them for more than an general idea of about how far you might be able to go. The estimated range is just that... an estimate. There is no way for a car with a full battery (or a full tank of gas) to know exactly how far you will be able to go before you need to charge or fill up again. Things like speed, elevation, climate control usage as well as wind speed and direction can all make a pretty significant impact, especially over several hundred miles.

I guess part of it might be because of the fact that gas stations are much more common than super chargers, so with an ICE car its easy to stop and fill up when you are running lower than expected, but it surprises me how much people take the estimated range as gospel in an electric car when they wouldn’t dream of doing so in an ICE car.

You can argue that “Tesla told me that this car would get 220 miles on a charge” or whatever, but along the same lines people have no problem when an ICE car is advertiesd as getting 30MPG and you really only get 25MPG. In that case people seem to realize that test conditions and real world conditions are different and you may not get what was advertised.
 
To be fair, my wife drove it to work for the day and then picked me up. So there was some vampire draw in there. But - I got 45 miles less than rated. Based on that 50 miles of cushion doesn't sound excessive.
You seem to not be realizing what a huge detail that is there that you're glossing over. These examples people have been giving about how much range they get from a charge is talking about long single trip, where you charge it up and then see how far it goes on the drive. With that detail you just revealed now for the very first time, the whole game is changed.
When the battery has been sitting cold for a long time, the energy use can be HUGE at the start for several minutes as it heats up a 1,000 pound battery pack. That takes a lot of energy. Then it got parked at work and sat all day long getting stone cold again. Then, it got started up and driven again, so it got to experience that HUGE energy draw again. So aside from your initial description of the events, where you implied that you were just changing one variable--90% starting charge instead of 100%--you actually had two variables you changed, and the unmentioned one was probably at least as big of a detriment to your range.
I live about 2 miles from work, so we have about a 4 mile total round trip. In the really cold part of winter, it's not that unusual for me to use maybe 8-10 rated miles for that because of the energy use after cold soaking the battery being that big.
 
@BettS That's a very good point. The range estimate is just an estimate not an exact number. I think Chevy did a smart thing with the Bolt. It gives the range estimate as a 'range'. Instead of saying you have 220 miles left like Tesla, they say you have 240-180 miles left.
 
The range estimate is actually very accurate for a round trip. What you lose with head winds or elevation you get back on the return trip.

Heating the car and battery in cold weather is best done while the car is still connected to 240VAC and you are enjoying a second cup of coffee. After that expect reduced range if the car becomes cold soaked again during the day.

That's been our experience and why I like having 100km (60 mi) of buffer when planning charging stops and why I always charge to 100 % before a long distance trip. For daily driving we charge to just below the trip limit which I think is 80% and for anyone considering an EV purchase I always tell them to get the biggest battery available. Range anxiety goes away with a big battery.
 
Rated range on a P85 is based upon driving 55mph or 65mph (don't remember which it is). Having 21 inch tires reduces range 5 to 10 percent. Driving above 70mph really reduces range (i.e., at 100mph,your range drops to under 200 miles for a 100 percent charge). Cold weather and rain will also reduce your range. Having performance (non low rolling resistance tires) also reduces your range. I usually change to 50 percent more than the distance I am traveling (i.e., if traveling 100 miles, I charge to at least 150 miles).
 
There is no way for a car with a full battery (or a full tank of gas) to know exactly how far you will be able to go before you need to charge or fill up again.

On the other hand, driving Japanese cars my entire adult life, and Fords before that, I always could rely on the gas gauge. Until I rented a car (from a very large manufacturer with a generic name) to drive to Mt. Rushmore in the age before cell phones. In western South Dakota on I-90 it stranded us with the gauge reading 1/8 of a tank remaining. Thankfully the weather was nice, as were the folks who picked us up walking *away* from the nearest gas station. And the wife was forgiving. Lesson learned--know your car, and don't push it.

Since I've never owned a BEV, threads like this are incredibly helpful preparation for the model 3. Cheers to all participants!
 
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So, one way to see how this plays out is to go here:

Model S | Tesla

Scroll down the page to where it says RANGE PER CHARGE

This is where you can play around with the speed of the vehicle,the temperature outside, whether you have the A/C or heater on, and the size of the wheels to see how it affects your range!

As you will see, these things will negatively affect your range:

colder temperature
faster speeds
bigger wheels and tires
A/C or heater on