Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Dear Elon: How about a capital raise to pay down the DOE loan?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
i could also express my view this way:

if they had done a vanilla share offering, the stock price would have come down in the short term. shares would most likely be placed with institutions who wanted to be long term owners of the stock but missed it on the way up. the increased valuation would have given it a higher future weighting in any indexes that tesla got added to, as well as increasing the likelihood of index addition due to the larger market cap. some shorts would have covered, but others would have found more shares to short or to stay short. these shorts would have been dragged slowly behind the tesla plow, their blood effectively fertilizing the ground as their bleeding carcasses slid across the soil. since there is no debt left bankruptcy risk is essentially zero.

by doing this carefully structured offering, the long term investors who want a pull back to buy tesla aren't going to be able to get shares. they won't chase as a matter of discipline, so they won't get in. meanwhile more shares will end up in the hands of those hedging the weird call option, and in the hands of hedge funds who are doing stock-loan / convertible bond arbitrage as i described earlier. the short term impact on the stock price will be positive and you will pile drive the shorts out. meanwhile debt increases on the balance sheet so bankruptcy can't be counted out as a worst case scenario. without shorts to support the stock as it drops, the stock will be more volatile (on the way down).

now tell me which would you prefer as a long term owner of the stock? just my opinion. k.i.s.s.

Do you really think tesla operates with no bankruptcy risk if their balance sheet contains no long term debt?


I think it's silly to look at this debt load as anything approaching relevant in discussing bankruptcy risk. Either the demand is there or it isn't; exploding working capital needs will put Tesla into CH11 whether or not there's a $400 million debt load, if the cars don't sell. Just ask JCPenny


Further, to frame the capitalization question in the context of whether and at what weighting tesla will be included in index funds, or whether the marginal 3 or 4 million shares will be in the hands of traders or bots or long term investors is wholly besides the point IMO. There are already very large insider and long term strategic and financial investors here; an extra 4 million shares in one or another hand matters very little. IMO Tesla's desired capital structure that provides the best trade off between coat of capital and leverage is what matters in these decisions, and that's why we are seeing this structure, at this time.
 
Why is Elon buying all his shares at market price, when he can exercise his options at less than $10. All this stuff is way over my head.

so it sets the price for the remainder of the offering (in a way). The offering already as a guaranteed large buyer at current market. Otherwise the current market price could be a challenge to establish as valid with investors of the offering. That was the reason on the last offering, but the real reason on this one imo is to shaft the shorts, keeping float shares in short supply (but that's just an speculative opinion with no particular basis in fact, knowledge or any other information). He's gambling that he can ramp Tesla fast enough in actual profit to continue using the shorts to drive the stock price - makes it really more risky imo for us small time long players though. Unfortunately for me, I'm a firm believer so will be taking that risk- albeit a smaller one than I planned
 
I am operating off of my phone and am not in a position to run this down. So I apologize for fact based mistakes.

It does look like Elon is purchasing ~$100m of the new shares issued. I notice that they are issuing $450m in debt. Going from memory and a quick mental calculation, wouldn't $50m in options exercised @~$9/share would net Elon ~$470m? The debt becomes available after trading tomorrow, so any chance we might see Elon exercise his original options and use the proceeds to purchase the debt?

He previously promised to pay off the loan himself. Would this maneuver even be legal?

Regardless Elon should be getting a new batch of options under his compensation plan for delivering 10k vehicles, which almost certainly happened yesterday or the day before.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually, I forgot the company cars. 10000 might be today or tomorrow.
 
luvb2b2: Excellent understanding as ususal you we're two steps ahead!

Indeed! Very savvy and prescient! The real kicker is Elon's huge participation. That almost entirely negates dilution knee-jerk thinking.

With 1/2 billion cash on hand and only well-designed convertible debt, Tesla will be able to pounce like lightning in every direction!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
I also think that Elon will exercise his new options, and use the proceeds to buy the debt and new shares.

So this is like he pays $50m and the shorts pay the rest, and Tesla pays down the DOE loan.

So, when Elon said that HE will pay off the loan himself, he was not quite correct. The shorts will pay off the DOE loan.
 
Tesla still ends up with the debt on their books. So Tesla will still pay. That's a wash or a slight negative by itself. But if Elon aquired the debt it would make for interesting drama and also put additional shares on the market.

I guess the other advantage is this debt has a lower service requirement until (if) he does. Should help cash flow even if not immediate balance sheet
 
well you gotta hand it to elon. i've never seen a ceo who has it in for shorts so badly. what he's doing is raising money without issuing very many shares. by using convertible debt, the debt can be priced off of the shares, but the shares will never exist til sometime in the future. the shorts won't be able to use the convertible debt to hedge because holding tesla shares short is just too expensive.

and in fact, because the you can earn so much loaning out the shares, you'll find hedge funds may do the reverse arbitrage - that is, they buy tesla shares and short the convertible debt. the idea is the hedgie buys tesla and loans out the shares, earning 30%+ in the short term. the convertible debt is shorted and requires some low interest payment (which doesn't matter much compared to the 30%). and the convertible debt provides a hedge to the long tesla position, protecting against some of the downside. if this trade starts happening, it will skew the price of the convertibles low and push the share price perhaps higher.

i'm trying to understand all this business about hedging the dilution of the convertible:

"The notes will be convertible into cash and, if applicable, shares of Tesla's common stock. The interest rate, conversion price and other terms of the notes are to be determined.In connection with the offering of the notes, Tesla intends to enter into convertible note hedge transactions and warrant transactions which are generally expected to prevent dilution up to 100% over the offering stock price. In connection with establishing their initial hedge of the convertible note hedge and warrant transactions, the hedge counterparties or their affiliates expect to enter into various derivative transactions with respect to our common stock concurrently with or shortly after the pricing of the notes, including with certain investors in the notes."

essentially a hedge against the note conversion would likely be tesla buying some kind of call options (or call spreads as there appears to be a cap). presumably they would exercise these calls as the notes got converted. what i don't understand is what the warrants are for, as warrants would involve newly issued shares being created. i can't really say i understand all this, except that what it does is it forces the counterparty to the conversion hedge to be short some kind of weird call option. presumably that counterparty then hedges the trade by buying shares of tesla (as typically short calls are hedged with long stock).

and then finally you have elon buying $100 million of stock in the offering. this is the dumbest part of the whole announcement. why didn't he buy $100 million when they did the offering at $27 just 6-8 months ago? my guess is that as he did in a prior offering, he is using his goldman line of credit backed by spacex/solar city/tesla. that credit line has surely grown recently, and he's putting $100 million of it to work. but it is actually quite idiotic. he already has his balance sheet at risk backing tesla's buyback guarantee. he already has a margin loan for tesla shares. and he already has a shi1-ton of tesla options. to buy relatively little at $28 and then after a 3x jump in the price he jumps in huge? that would be really poor trade management in nearly all circumstances (there are a few exceptions i can think of).

imo all this makes for great headlines, but unless i am misunderstanding something, elon has lost his mind. the structure of the offering seems to be designed to raise capital and goose tesla stock higher. the capital raise is good but i would argue that at this point it's almost intentional manipulation trying to drive the stock higher. now maybe tesla's sales and earnings are going to be good enough to justify whatever that higher price might be, but honestly i can't understand why they are manipulating the stock this way. the convertible note hedge transactions throw a whole bunch of opacity over the whole thing: what derivative transactions will be entered behind the scenes, who will participate, and how will they affect the shares? these are all unknown to shareholders.

and it seems the result is that more tesla shares will end up in the hands of hedge funds and investment banks who are using them for sophisticated trading strategies related to the hedges and the convertibles. fewer shares will be in the hand of long-term tesla investors. and volatility in the stock price will increase. it has been (and may continue to be) great fun on the way up. but some day it will turn down as sure as the tide eventually goes out. and the drop could be very painful.

oh and by the way, we don't even know how many shorts are left in the stock. nearly 110 million shares traded in the last 5 sessions, so presumably a lot of the old shorts have covered.

i know from a shareholder point of view there is some excitement that he's taking a knife to the back of the short-sellers. the offering is great and an amount similar to what i hoped they would raise. it's awesome they can do it without issuing shares. the "hot money" in tesla is going to love this announcement.

however i feel he is going too far here with some of these additional complexities. i don't believe these complexities serve the long term owners of the company. what i see happening in the future is that after the shorts are pounded to oblivion the cost of shorting will drop. at that time a lot of people who are holding shares to take advantage of loaning them out (like the stooges from the rolling naked short thread) will start to sell those shares. hedgies who are doing the trades described above will not want their shares either. and meanwhile the shorts who would otherwise support the price in a falling market will be gone. with the price artificially inflated, absence of demand from shorts, and plenty of supply from longs unwinding random derivative strategies, i would expect the subsequent drop to be exaggerated as well. i'm not describing a short process here, this is something that would likely play out over a matter of many months. maybe by then elon will have done something to justify a $15 billion fully-diluted valuation, which will happen probably by $110-120/share and things will be completely different than my debbie-downer scenario.

almost every company i've seen go to war with the shorts has ended up having some major declines in share price. i like to see tesla be shareholder friendly, but going too far to murder the shorts is not something i like to see. i think what would have been better is to just keep executing and letting the stock work its way higher naturally, keep the shorts engaged with whatever nonsense gets them to short. those shorts would basically guarantee outperformance of telsa stock in a down market and offer a constant supply of buyers to keep buoying the share price. any increase in share price would have unfolded over a longer period of time, and long term tesla owners would have been more likely to not be flushed out by high volatility.

that's my 2c. happy & sad at the same time. luv to hear other people's opinions.

I'm struggling to catch up to this on my phone. These convertible notes can be converted to cash or shares. These end up as a "loan" on the books, but is there any payments required? Almost seems like a single balloon payment in 2018 for either cash or shares. If Elon aquired these wouldn't it be like an option that Elon could use to maintain flexibility for himself and Tesla moving forward?

And again, anyone know if this is legal? Goldman is issuing the securities tomorrow. Could they even preferentially hold them for Elon?
 
I'm struggling to catch up to this on my phone. These convertible notes can be converted to cash or shares. These end up as a "loan" on the books, but is there any payments required? Almost seems like a single balloon payment in 2018 for either cash or shares. If Elon aquired these wouldn't it be like an option that Elon could use to maintain flexibility for himself and Tesla moving forward?

And again, anyone know if this is legal? Goldman is issuing the securities tomorrow. Could they even preferentially hold them for Elon?

that's the way I read it- pretty smart as it removes that from the cash flow requirement. I'm no expert, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't be legal. Guess this is what he meant by covering the loan himself. Even if the debt/options are held for 2018 Elon it has to carry on the books until then and no different than a personal loan to the company backed by current margin or asset. I've done similar for my startups without a problem- (but again I'm not an authoritative source for this opinion - just based on some personal experience)
 
that's the way I read it- pretty smart as it removes that from the cash flow requirement. I'm no expert, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't be legal. Guess this is what he meant by covering the loan himself. Even if the debt/options are held for 2018 Elon it has to carry on the books until then and no different than a personal loan to the company backed by current margin or asset. I've done similar for my startups without a problem- (but again I'm not an authoritative source for this opinion - just based on some personal experience)

Plus it locks in Elons gains from exercising his options because the securities can be converted to cash.

- - - Updated - - -


Though my expectation would be that Elon would eventually convert to shares and wipe the debt away in a backdoor secondary whenever he feels like it.
 
Plus it locks in Elons gains from exercising his options because the securities can be converted to cash.

yep - good point I didn't think of that. Simply gives him portfolio cash position. By 2018 he knows it will be chump change to him anyway (he probably views it as securing his ticket to Mars :) )

yeah- agree on your second follow up thought. From his words and contract, he's pretty locked in to Tesla for 10 years, so probably just converts to stock- shorts will be all gone by then! :)
 
Plus it locks in Elons gains from exercising his options because the securities can be converted to cash.

- - - Updated - - -


Though my expectation would be that Elon would eventually convert to shares and wipe the debt away in a backdoor secondary whenever he feels like it.

I don't think this is it. Elon is already buying 100M in shares. I find it hard to believe this is what they're going to do. If it was, they could have just sold him the preferred shares in a direct sale the same way they are selling him the normal shares. Why go through the charade?
 
Do you really think tesla operates with no bankruptcy risk if their balance sheet contains no long term debt?

near zero bankruptcy risk, yes.

the primary risk tesla faces is refinancing risk. for example, consider a scenario where a couple years down the road interest rates in the usa are higher, the euro-zone is in chaos, oil prices are lower due to lack of demand, and luxury auto sales are down. in that world tesla could end up in a situation where a debt repayment is due but they don't have adequate funds on hand to make it and the credit markets won't let them refinance. tesla would have to sell a large number of shares to make the payment, or face default.

if they take the debt off their balance sheet, there is no large debt repayment. they can regulate their cash in down cycles by managing labor and capital expenditures to maximize their resources.

we've already seen this happen in tesla's young history. when it came time to raise funds, the capital markets closed on them. tesla nearly didn't make it, saved only by elon committing his last $20 million to the company. who's to say it couldn't happen again? and this time elon would be getting margin calls if tesla shares were going down.

I think it's silly to look at this debt load as anything approaching relevant in discussing bankruptcy risk. Either the demand is there or it isn't; exploding working capital needs will put Tesla into CH11 whether or not there's a $400 million debt load, if the cars don't sell. Just ask JCPenny

besides execution risk, you're totally ignoring the possibility of external macro events. if rates rise by say 4-5%, you can bet those people using penfed and tesla financing at 1-3% rates will be using it a lot less at 6-8% rates. we already know the demand is there when oil is $95, interest rates are near zero, and government incentives to consumers are at least $7,500 per vehicle. but what if oil is $40, rates are 7%, and government incentive subsidies are gone?

as i said above, the company already faced a liquidity event once when capital couldn't be raised on a timely basis due to market conditions. why keep the door open for that sort of thing again?

Further, to frame the capitalization question in the context of whether and at what weighting tesla will be included in index funds, or whether the marginal 3 or 4 million shares will be in the hands of traders or bots or long term investors is wholly besides the point IMO. There are already very large insider and long term strategic and financial investors here; an extra 4 million shares in one or another hand matters very little. IMO Tesla's desired capital structure that provides the best trade off between coat of capital and leverage is what matters in these decisions, and that's why we are seeing this structure, at this time.

it's not 3-4 million shares in all scenarios. $830 million would be ~10 million shares. it's the difference between 10 million shares being in the hands of long term investors who are disciplined about what price they pay and 4-6 million shares being in the hands of people who don't care what they pay as long as they can do whatever arbitrage trade. the former helps steady the valuation and the latter makes it more volatile.

i don't see how repaying a low-interest government loan with a convertible bond can really help tesla's cost of capital? is the market really going to loan them money cheaper than the federal government? i guess we'll find out soon enough. i'm not convinced this decision making was optimizing the balance sheet. i think it was a financing designed to raise capital and simultaneously screw the shorts. on those two counts it is brilliantly conceived.

real world liquidity is fleeting and capital markets can close their doors from time to time. having no debt would knock that awkward refinancing risk off the table and i would have liked to have seen it.
 
by doing this carefully structured offering, the long term investors who want a pull back to buy tesla aren't going to be able to get shares. they won't chase as a matter of discipline, so they won't get in.

luvb2b, you sound frustrated. Hope you didn't get your shares taken away from you.

Sometime the right move is to chase, sometimes its not. I think there's adequate 'cash' on sidelines, to keep TSLA at these levels regardless of whether Elon participates in the raise.
 
"In connection with the offering of the notes, Tesla intends to enter into convertible note hedge transactions and warrant transactions which are generally expected to prevent dilution up to 100% over the offering stock price. In connection with establishing their initial hedge of the convertible note hedge and warrant transactions, the hedge counterparties or their affiliates expect to enter into various derivative transactions with respect to our common stock concurrently with or shortly after the pricing of the notes, including with certain investors in the notes."

Substitute "Elon Musk" with the bold, and what does this all mean?

- - - Updated - - -

"the hedge counterparties or their affiliates expect to enter into various derivative transactions"

They can only "expect" something if they already know who will have the notes. They will engage in derivative transactions with Elon.

- - - Updated - - -

Could these transactions be designed to ensure Elon doesn't immediately convert the notes into shares and kill the share price? Thus allowing Goldman et al to ink this deal tonight before it all closes?