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Dear Elon: just remove navigation from your cars

Reeler

Decade of Pure EV Driving
Oct 14, 2015
1,765
1,318
Denver, CO
Just have to agree to disagree. Getting the USB working with game controllers and the steering wheel controls working with games is a bunch of effort. Connecting the display, speakers and mic to the phone takes no effort at all to get Carplay working. Far less work than the stupid fart app or external speakers. It is a strategy of Tesla's. They want to develop an ecosystem, but I will pass thanks. I am phone centric and not car centric.
 

drtimhill

Active Member
Apr 25, 2019
3,406
4,410
Seattle
Getting the USB working with game controllers and the steering wheel controls working with games is a bunch of effort. Connecting the display, speakers and mic to the phone takes no effort at all to get Carplay working.

As I have already noted .. this is inaccurate. CarPlay integration is complex, even on cars where the console screen is a convenience, and far more so on the Model 3 where it is also the instrument cluster.

And what will you do when you notice that CarPlay navigation doesnt give accurate Supercharging locations? And doesnt let the car precondition? And doesnt work with NoA or the upcoming FSD? Tesla will never ever integrate NoA or FSD with a 3rd party nav system, if only because of the massive liability issues.
 
The tesla nav is... OK. I could be better for example in the traffic display. I used to used android auto and Waze. The only thing I miss is the speed trap notifications. The only time it had failed me getting directions for a place, Google fail as well. It was a new road and it seemed was not in the db yet.

Tesla failed, because I believe it uses the Google basemaps. So no surprise that Google failed also.
 
Tesla failed, because I believe it uses the Google basemaps. So no surprise that Google failed also.
Of course, waze use the same. What I meant, is that at least on my experience, the Tesla maps are adequate. And since it uses Google services they can extend the information displayed. I agree on one thing though, I have no use for the Emissions app. Even as a.joke they invest way too much time and resources on it.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
13,104
9,426
Just have to agree to disagree. Getting the USB working with game controllers
Sorry, but this is trivial as the Linux subsystem would already have native support for standard USB controllers, or if not there are plenty of free off the shelf drivers available. I remember in the early days of Model S, people plugging in mouse and keyboard and it working. There is no effort required on the part of Tesla.

and the steering wheel controls working with games is a bunch of effort.
Again, this is something the Tesla engineers already have access to and takes minimal effort to implement.

Connecting the display, speakers and mic to the phone takes no effort at all to get Carplay working.
Definitely not. Tesla would have to implement the API that the phone uses to talk to the car via USB or wirelessly. This is non-trivial in terms of software development.

Far less work than the stupid fart app or external speakers. It is a strategy of Tesla's. They want to develop an ecosystem, but I will pass thanks. I am phone centric and not car centric.
Again all the stuff you talk about Tesla is using their own framework so it's relatively easy for them. Both of the Carplay and Android Auto implementations require Tesla to work with external frameworks (and continue to provide support for it in future updates in order not to break things). That's a lot more software development effort.
 
Have to say I prefer to use Waze built into Ford Sync on my Raptor and formerly on our Explorer that we traded for the Y.

This might be on another thread - but the phone integration using voice is terrible on the Y. Not all that accurate and when it has a match to someone with the same last name (e.g. our family name) - I have to scroll to get to the right person, while driving - which defeats the purpose. Sync gets it right 99% of the time to the correct person.
 
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I appreciate the integration of the Tesla Navigation software on the Model Y with the iPhone. I can look up an entry in the iPhone Contacts or use Apple Maps, Google Maps or Waze to enter a destination. Once I select the destination I select Send and the destination is sent to the Tesla. The destination appears automatically on the Tesla Navigation screen the next time I drive the Tesla.
I had no idea you could do that!! So cool.
 
Some of the complaints listed in this thread are IMO "reasonable"... particularly so if you close your eyes and ignore the fact that we are all essentially "early adopters". This is not a mature mainstream technology yet. The number of EVs on the road is quite small relative to the total number of automobiles. So yes, it's annoying that some things that feel like they *should* be "standard" or "easy/doable" when we all pay what we paid for these cars (the "cheap Tesla's" are relatively expensive compared to the rest of the automotive market), aren't there. And that's annoying, I agree. It's annoying that the only integrated music streaming service right now is Spotify. And it's annoying that Spotify's integration... isn't very integrated. This feels like a pretty basic/standard feature in 2021, to a *lot* of cars that cost less than our Tesla's did/do... and I find it annoying.

But this isn't a mature technology. Tesla is *the leader* on this technology, and this is where *the leader* is right now. They have big plans in terms of their own ecosystem. And that's a gameplan they didn't create/invent; they're just following a blueprint that all the biggest and most successful tech companies before them have drawn up and rigidly followed with great financial success. Like I said, as a user/consumer I find it annoying... but if I were them? I'd have a hard time not trying to build my own software empire/ecosystem too... especially when they aren't playing catch-up to anyone else. They're in the lead, by a wide-margin, when it comes to EVs.


And more specifically, complaints about the map/navigation? I dunno, I've had my Tesla for over 6 months now, I think I have about ~8000 miles on it at this point... and the *only* deficiency I can see/agree with in relation to other navigation apps/services is the lack of support for user-generated info on things like speed traps. So whenever I want that, I just turn my phone on too, and think about it like getting a "second opinion" on navigation... not a big deal, IMO. Otherwise, I've found their turn-by-turn to be pretty spot-on. Whenever I do have that "second opinion" running on my phone, whether that be Waze or Google Maps, it almost always agrees every step of the way with Tesla's nav... my experiences with it have been overwhelmingly positive, and I would not include it on a list of complaints/annoyances with Tesla software/UI.
 
Some of the complaints listed in this thread are IMO "reasonable"... particularly so if you close your eyes and ignore the fact that we are all essentially "early adopters". This is not a mature mainstream technology yet. The number of EVs on the road is quite small relative to the total number of automobiles. So yes, it's annoying that some things that feel like they *should* be "standard" or "easy/doable" when we all pay what we paid for these cars (the "cheap Tesla's" are relatively expensive compared to the rest of the automotive market), aren't there. And that's annoying, I agree. It's annoying that the only integrated music streaming service right now is Spotify. And it's annoying that Spotify's integration... isn't very integrated. This feels like a pretty basic/standard feature in 2021, to a *lot* of cars that cost less than our Tesla's did/do... and I find it annoying.

But this isn't a mature technology. Tesla is *the leader* on this technology, and this is where *the leader* is right now. They have big plans in terms of their own ecosystem. And that's a gameplan they didn't create/invent; they're just following a blueprint that all the biggest and most successful tech companies before them have drawn up and rigidly followed with great financial success. Like I said, as a user/consumer I find it annoying... but if I were them? I'd have a hard time not trying to build my own software empire/ecosystem too... especially when they aren't playing catch-up to anyone else. They're in the lead, by a wide-margin, when it comes to EVs.


And more specifically, complaints about the map/navigation? I dunno, I've had my Tesla for over 6 months now, I think I have about ~8000 miles on it at this point... and the *only* deficiency I can see/agree with in relation to other navigation apps/services is the lack of support for user-generated info on things like speed traps. So whenever I want that, I just turn my phone on too, and think about it like getting a "second opinion" on navigation... not a big deal, IMO. Otherwise, I've found their turn-by-turn to be pretty spot-on. Whenever I do have that "second opinion" running on my phone, whether that be Waze or Google Maps, it almost always agrees every step of the way with Tesla's nav... my experiences with it have been overwhelmingly positive, and I would not include it on a list of complaints/annoyances with Tesla software/UI.

Leader in many ways but not so much in map/navigation, CarPlay, cell integration. Isn't that the easy part? One cannot run Waze directly can they? (I can with my Ford). I'm only 90 days in so still learning. Having a CarPlay option - like the Mach E provides would be nice but sounds like that's unlikely.
 
Leader in many ways but not so much in map/navigation, CarPlay, cell integration. Isn't that the easy part? One cannot run Waze directly can they? (I can with my Ford). I'm only 90 days in so still learning. Having a CarPlay option - like the Mach E provides would be nice but sounds like that's unlikely.

Shorter and more succinct than my first post:
1. I don't find their map/nav to be inferior *by much*... only lacking in Speed Trap notifications, in my experience. Otherwise every bit as good/accurate/fast as Google Maps and Waze, for me at least, so far...
2. Regarding Android Auto/Car Play/music? Sure... but no less annoying than every other major tech company's Walled Garden ecosystems and unwillingness to play nice with everyone else. And that approach is working very well for all of them to-date (Apple/Google/Amazon/Facebook/etc etc etc)...

Tesla is *the leader* in EV, overall, and they're working on their own Walled Garden ecosystem... which would have clear advantages to them for obvious reasons, but also might have some clear advantages/technical reasons for us the end user, in terms of their implementing/advancing things like Full Self Driving and continuing to develop Tesla Arcade and other Infotainment features that are revolutionary compared to anything Android Auto or Apple Carplay provide (backseat and front seat simultaneous play? The Witcher 3 coming? Etc etc)...
 
Shorter and more succinct than my first post:
1. I don't find their map/nav to be inferior *by much*... only lacking in Speed Trap notifications, in my experience. Otherwise every bit as good/accurate/fast as Google Maps and Waze, for me at least, so far...
2. Regarding Android Auto/Car Play/music? Sure... but no less annoying than every other major tech company's Walled Garden ecosystems and unwillingness to play nice with everyone else. And that approach is working very well for all of them to-date (Apple/Google/Amazon/Facebook/etc etc etc)...

Tesla is *the leader* in EV, overall, and they're working on their own Walled Garden ecosystem... which would have clear advantages to them for obvious reasons, but also might have some clear advantages/technical reasons for us the end user, in terms of their implementing/advancing things like Full Self Driving and continuing to develop Tesla Arcade and other Infotainment features that are revolutionary compared to anything Android Auto or Apple Carplay provide (backseat and front seat simultaneous play? The Witcher 3 coming? Etc etc)...

Sure - I get their the leader in the EV field right now, and maybe for years to come. Some of these "features" are valued differently by people. Tesla Arcade - I mean it's cool and all that but I don't really spend that much time in the car idle for it to matter, same with the Infotainment. FSD - seems like it has a long ways to go based on what I'm read. I didn't buy that option.

I mean call me old fashioned, but geez make the phone interface better. It's really not very good. Nor is the texting piece. I use CarPlay some of the time in my Raptor and typically use Waze via the Sync app for most out of town trips. I don't think Tesla's mapping is bad and of course the integrated Supercharger piece is a necessity on road trips. Waze and it's use of crowdsourcing (if that's the right term), is pretty nice.
 
Sure - I get their the leader in the EV field right now, and maybe for years to come. Some of these "features" are valued differently by people. Tesla Arcade - I mean it's cool and all that but I don't really spend that much time in the car idle for it to matter, same with the Infotainment. FSD - seems like it has a long ways to go based on what I'm read. I didn't buy that option.

I mean call me old fashioned, but geez make the phone interface better. It's really not very good. Nor is the texting piece. I use CarPlay some of the time in my Raptor and typically use Waze via the Sync app for most out of town trips. I don't think Tesla's mapping is bad and of course the integrated Supercharger piece is a necessity on road trips. Waze and it's use of crowdsourcing (if that's the right term), is pretty nice.

I think we don't disagree... at least not by much...
1. I agree that the phone integration isn't very good. And I'm annoyed that it isn't better.

2. I agree that the Waze "crowdsourcing" of data for info on things like Speedtraps is valuable and a missing feature on Tesla Maps/Nav...

3. I agree that I myself don't use Tesla Arcade much either... but I think Tesla is well-positioned to sell family-friendly EV's like hotcakes. I myself purchased a Y specifically because of it's family-friendly features, and I didn't buy it with my son and his gaming habits in mind, but I can also tell you my 8-year-old-son thinks Tesla Arcade is amazing, and I think it has potential to become a real sales feature (key-selling-point-differentiator) if they continue to grow and develop it from the gimmick I currently think it is to the kind of thing they just teased it becoming (backseat gaming for the kids while the front seat is driving/navigating; Triple AAA titles like Witcher 3; etc). Irregardless of how much you or I, as front-seat-drivers, may or may not use it...

But more importantly than 1-3 is 4-5:

4. I think Tesla views FSD as a key feature to their future financial success. And I did pick up the feature. And I don't think it's "ready for primetime" today, and as of today the $8k upcharge I paid for it was likely higher than it's worth... but I'm playing the long-game with this Model Y, and I think Tesla is too with FSD....

5. And I think the other key feature/thing Tesla has going for it, that has it well-positioned to stay in the lead for a very long time to come in the EV market, is what it has done with the supercharger network. You and I agree on that. And making that work *perfectly* within their cars and on their phone apps is certainly an important part of taking full advantage of that key feature...
 
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