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Dear Tesla - From an Early Model S Reservation Holder
- Thread starter Todd Burch
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- Model S
That's how Apple made decisions under Jobs for right or wrong. They ditched the disk drive a full 5 years before most PCs did because Apple decided people didn't need them anymore and they're doing the same with DVD drives on their laptops. There are tons of other examples like that.
I'm not saying that's what Tesla is doing but I agree. These decisions can't all be because they simply didn't think about it.
:smile: George B also mentioned (and efusco pointed out) that he's on vacation for the next couple weeks. So best wishes for a nice vacation!
Re: OP. I agree with Discoducky that it does seem like X revs instead of A. I also am lugging around a laptop these days in my wife's car (the one that'll get replaced) and I'd take a car RIGHT NOW even in the current state of finish and I'd be happy to have it. The (&*$%#$ center console is a pain in the shoulder when I've got a bag to deal with and I think my wife would be happy with the current incarnation of the center non-console too.
Overall though, I agree. More info would be very nice if I can get it. If I don't, w/e, I've already got my reservation locked in and will be happy to have a car even in demo state.
AndyM
Member
I think you mean:
(Mole & M_WHACKED) == 1
That mole is more than whacked... the M_SMASHED and M_BEATEN_SEV flags are also set.
CapitalistOppressor
Active Member
Nice post and well written. More information would be nice even if its just to say the car is going with the current features, but the fit and finish process is being optimized before we start mass production. And it would be better yet to release final details on the center console options, or any other possible changes which are afoot.
I must say though, there is zero evidence that most of these "issues" and "requests" represent a majority opinion among reservation holders. There are ~12,000 Model S reservation holders and the vast majority are not posting on this website, or even reading the forums.
The Opportunity Console thread (which is likely the biggest, baddest complaint thread currently running) has a total of 397 replies, many of which are just the same people having an extended conversation with each other over the course of weeks. Just because this website provides an opportunity for us to form communities of interest, does not mean that opinions being expressed in those communities represent the bulk of opinion for reservation holders at large.
Based on the evidence (i.e. lack of evidence) it would be equally valid to hypothesize that the various complaint threads are populated by a couple of hundred users who have been batting various issues around in the echo-chamber and have convinced themselves that because all they hear are complaints, their opinion must represent some kind of general consensus of reservation holders. But just because they think that, doesn't make it the truth.
Personally, I'm a newcomer to this website. Until the last month or so, I had no clue that the world would end if I didn't have a better center console, or that powered folding mirrors were essential to my car buying decision. I have no idea what the 12,000 other people who want to buy the car think, but it's seriously non-scientific, and therefor invalid, to presume that any of these various complaints on TMC represent anything other than the opinion of the tiny minority of folks who have actually posted a complaint. And in fairness, it's invalid to presume that there is NOT a general sentiment that changes are required.
But until I see actual polling of the reservation base, I will remain extremely skeptical that there are major issues that Tesla must address beyond the basic fit and finish issues they have committed to improve upon.
However, on the off chance that GeorgeB wants my input, I would like to say that as a general proposition I have a near religious affinity for quality cupholders that securely hold any size cup I put into it. I've owned vehicles where the cup holders are just like the stock Model S setup, and I know the trick is to reach with your left hand across your body to pick up the cup.
Even so, I don't like it. For it to work you have to lift your right elbow a bit for the cup to clear, and I just don't like to have my elbow waving in the breeze like that. In all honesty, I'll buy the car the way it is and just make it work (like I have done with every other car I've owned which wasn't completely perfect in every respect). But if a better option is available, I'd seriously enjoy going with a different arrangement.
I must say though, there is zero evidence that most of these "issues" and "requests" represent a majority opinion among reservation holders. There are ~12,000 Model S reservation holders and the vast majority are not posting on this website, or even reading the forums.
The Opportunity Console thread (which is likely the biggest, baddest complaint thread currently running) has a total of 397 replies, many of which are just the same people having an extended conversation with each other over the course of weeks. Just because this website provides an opportunity for us to form communities of interest, does not mean that opinions being expressed in those communities represent the bulk of opinion for reservation holders at large.
Based on the evidence (i.e. lack of evidence) it would be equally valid to hypothesize that the various complaint threads are populated by a couple of hundred users who have been batting various issues around in the echo-chamber and have convinced themselves that because all they hear are complaints, their opinion must represent some kind of general consensus of reservation holders. But just because they think that, doesn't make it the truth.
Personally, I'm a newcomer to this website. Until the last month or so, I had no clue that the world would end if I didn't have a better center console, or that powered folding mirrors were essential to my car buying decision. I have no idea what the 12,000 other people who want to buy the car think, but it's seriously non-scientific, and therefor invalid, to presume that any of these various complaints on TMC represent anything other than the opinion of the tiny minority of folks who have actually posted a complaint. And in fairness, it's invalid to presume that there is NOT a general sentiment that changes are required.
But until I see actual polling of the reservation base, I will remain extremely skeptical that there are major issues that Tesla must address beyond the basic fit and finish issues they have committed to improve upon.
However, on the off chance that GeorgeB wants my input, I would like to say that as a general proposition I have a near religious affinity for quality cupholders that securely hold any size cup I put into it. I've owned vehicles where the cup holders are just like the stock Model S setup, and I know the trick is to reach with your left hand across your body to pick up the cup.
Even so, I don't like it. For it to work you have to lift your right elbow a bit for the cup to clear, and I just don't like to have my elbow waving in the breeze like that. In all honesty, I'll buy the car the way it is and just make it work (like I have done with every other car I've owned which wasn't completely perfect in every respect). But if a better option is available, I'd seriously enjoy going with a different arrangement.
Again, this letter is not about a request for changes. It's a request for knowledge. We all deserve to know what we're being asked to buy. Whether or not it meets our needs and wants is a different issue.
Todd - Nice letter, thank you for articulating what many of us believe.
It seems Tesla has several things to address - that list is too long to enumerate fully. But at the top is giving enough weight to the ordinary while executing the extraordinary. As an architect we have to deal with wanting to deliver inspirational designs to our clients, yet the public restrooms have to meet federal accessibility codes - you can imagine which issue we prefer to spend time on, yet it does not obviate the need to address, elegantly, the other.
Similarly, Tesla has slightly miscalculated on momentum. The run up from October to June was amazing, the Amped tour looked to build on that, but the delivery delays and rumors are now eroding the goodwill. Since delivering the cars is the endgame, I hope they improve communication as Todd suggests and restore what appears to be slowly diminishing confidence. The last several months sequence reminds me of this year's Spurs amazing regular season, playoff win streak, and then dashed hopes.
However, I still expect Tesla to win the Finals (deliver a great car in a timely, open manner).
Still a fan, still a reservation holder, still test-driving in Austin, and still looking at this forum every day...
cattledog
It seems Tesla has several things to address - that list is too long to enumerate fully. But at the top is giving enough weight to the ordinary while executing the extraordinary. As an architect we have to deal with wanting to deliver inspirational designs to our clients, yet the public restrooms have to meet federal accessibility codes - you can imagine which issue we prefer to spend time on, yet it does not obviate the need to address, elegantly, the other.
Similarly, Tesla has slightly miscalculated on momentum. The run up from October to June was amazing, the Amped tour looked to build on that, but the delivery delays and rumors are now eroding the goodwill. Since delivering the cars is the endgame, I hope they improve communication as Todd suggests and restore what appears to be slowly diminishing confidence. The last several months sequence reminds me of this year's Spurs amazing regular season, playoff win streak, and then dashed hopes.
However, I still expect Tesla to win the Finals (deliver a great car in a timely, open manner).
Still a fan, still a reservation holder, still test-driving in Austin, and still looking at this forum every day...
cattledog
I agree. I never wanted a sunshade.
My complaint with Tesla is the communication is inconsistent and inaccurate. Either they do not communicate with us (this is not necessarily a bad thing, re: Apple) or they provide us with a lot of information in a short period of time (re: George B's blog). More important, Tesla provide us with misinformation. The two most recent examples are Elon Musk stating 4G will be available at launch at the Annual Shareholder Meeting, and that Tesla would announce the Supercharging network in July (he made that announcement in May at the Q1 conference call). Both statements are factually inaccurate.
Granted these forums do not help the spread of misinformation and rumors. However, it's a bigger problem when the CEO of a publicly traded enterprise makes inaccurate factual representations at shareholder meetings and earning calls.
Tesla either needs to communicate often and accurately or go silent.
Arnold Panz
Model Sig 304, VIN 542
I had not really thought much about this, but this is actually the one issue of all that have been raised that I think merits serious re-consideration by Tesla. The reason is that, unlike an ICE car, I have no choice but to park my car in my garage every night, or it won't work! In Florida, many people (including myself) use our garages as storage space because we don't have basements, so my wife and I just park in our driveway. One of our summer projects has been to clean out enough so I can get the car in. I never thought much about how I'd actually get the car in and out every day, but for a plug-in car like a Model S that is as wide or wider than a normal car, it should be obvious that it would need to be as simple as possible to pull it in and out of a tight space like a one car garage.
Can I do it manually? Of course, but if I have to do both sides, or do it in the pouring rain, I'm not going to be too happy about that. And given the price I'm paying for the car, and knowing it's fairly common on other cars in its (alleged) class, this was definitely something I wish Tesla had included. Ironically, if I were buying another car for a similar price (Maserati, Mercedes S, BMW 7, Audi A8) I wouldn't care about this because I'd just keep parking it in the driveway. The Model S is the ONLY car I'd actually want to have this feature because of my need to get it in and out of my garage to charge it.
To say you need to park it in your garage every night is a slight exaggeration. For one thing, with a range of 300 miles, an average US driver (who drives 40 miles per day) would need to recharge once a week. This might not be how people would usually charge, but if you don't charge one day here and there, when it's raining or whatever, it probably wouldn't be an issue.
Also, it is possible to install charging for your driveway. It costs extra, but it's certainly not an impossibility.
Also, it is possible to install charging for your driveway. It costs extra, but it's certainly not an impossibility.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
While I concur that your Model S should be garaged, I've charged my Roadster many times while parked in the driveway. My 14-50 outlet is installed in the garage, on the center post between two garage doors - so when I've wanted to leave the car in the driveway, I've plugged the car in and closed the garage door on the cable. I've also charged the car overnight parked in the driveway at friends' homes, with the cable snaking into whatever outlet they provide me in the garage.
In no way am I saying you shouldn't clean out your garage! Just saying that the ability to pull in the garage is not a requirement.
In no way am I saying you shouldn't clean out your garage! Just saying that the ability to pull in the garage is not a requirement.
I don't quite understand why you can't park it in the driveway. The Model S won't fit lengthwise in my garage and so mine will be parked outside. The HPC is fine when installed outside (RV plugs are usually installed outside because most garages won't hold an RV).
Arnold Panz
Model Sig 304, VIN 542
While I concur that your Model S should be garaged, I've charged my Roadster many times while parked in the driveway. My 14-50 outlet is installed in the garage, on the center post between two garage doors - so when I've wanted to leave the car in the driveway, I've plugged the car in and closed the garage door on the cable. I've also charged the car overnight parked in the driveway at friends' homes, with the cable snaking into whatever outlet they provide me in the garage.
In no way am I saying you shouldn't clean out your garage! Just saying that the ability to pull in the garage is not a requirement.
Thanks Bonnie. I had thought about whether I could shut the garage door on the cable if need be, and it's good to know that I can.
My point was that I want to treat my car like my cellphone -- come home at night, plug it in, and I'm fully charged the next day. No question that I can pull off charging it without pulling it into the garage if need be, but of all the cars in the world that people will want to get into their garage, this has got to be right at the top of the list because of the need to charge it. Given its width, then, how could Tesla not have installed automatic folding side mirrors? Again, this is no deal breaker for me -- the fact that we're quibbling over relatively minor issues is a great sign for Tesla overall, but it just seems like something that really should have been considered when deciding what features to include.
I meant extra, relative to just using whatever socket is available in the garage already.
But even if you are determined to install a new EVSE or socket, either in the garage or driveway, there will usually be some extra costs. How much extra depends on driveway. You might need a charging post of some kind, dig a ditch, resurface the driveway to some extent, additional cable length, etc. But it might also be as easy as putting the same hardware that you would have put up in the garage on external the wall of the garage, which could even be cheaper than putting it up inside, if the fuse box were closer to the external wall than the inside of the garage.
My assumption was that most garages are like mine with one 15 amp circuit plus the main power to the house. So any EV purchase would require installing a charging circuit. Whether the circuit was ran inside the garage or outside the garage, the cost should be about the same (e.g. no extra cost just because it's outside).
Do you remember the announcement of a Q&A post by Franz von Holzhausen in the TM Forum? The questions piled up very fast, the answer got delayed several weeks. Tesla conceded that the answer will be delayer only after the original time window elapsed.
So I think they have their hands full today, again. Building pressure "in the name of all reservation holders" is about as menacing as a fish threatening to throw itself ashore. If you have serious concerns at the time you have to sign your MVPA, defer. That's about the best feedback you can give to Tesla.
I write that with ease since I won't take delivery any time soon. I consider it highly probable that EU deliveries will be pushed even after that Q1 2013 mentioned by a sales rep. I am glad and thankful to the pioneers and early adopters that will accept the car in its current state WRT mirrors, lights, or center consoles- They help Tesla to get Model S into production. I want a more complete car, though. If you have the same desire, defer.
So I think they have their hands full today, again. Building pressure "in the name of all reservation holders" is about as menacing as a fish threatening to throw itself ashore.
If you have serious concerns at the time you have to sign your MVPA, defer. That's about the best feedback you can give to Tesla. I write that with ease since I won't take delivery any time soon. I consider it highly probable that EU deliveries will be pushed even after that Q1 2013 mentioned by a sales rep. I am glad and thankful to the pioneers and early adopters that will accept the car in its current state WRT mirrors, lights, or center consoles- They help Tesla to get Model S into production. I want a more complete car, though. If you have the same desire, defer.
Maybe if they didn't have to spend all kinds of time dealing with impatient customers they'd be able to build the cars...
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