Death of a center screen / touch screen after warranty

[Nosken]

Sorry to hear about this, Measton. I have a stack of dead MCU's (Multimedia Control Units) accumulating in my lab. All but one has a failure of the eMMC flash drive used on the Tegra module. This is what holds the Linux operating system the CID (Center Information Display) uses for display functions on the 17" screen. The MCU also contains some other stuff, one is the gateway which is a separate computer (doesn't run Linux or depend on the eMMC flash). The gateway is critical to making the car drive, but the CID is not. Your car will usually still continue to drive with a black screen.

The reason the eMMC is failing is because they use it for continuous logging. Because it's unlike a normal hard drive, it has a limit on how many times it can be written to, and the vast logging data quickly pushes this over the limit. These Linux log files are not needed for functioning of the car, and in fact on all salvage cars I support, one of the first things I do is disable it. The car logging functions possibly needed for service diagnosis are unaffected, as these are logged onto a 4G SD card that happens to also be easily replaceable.

Lately Tesla has toned down the logging somewhat, but it's still way more than I would consider with eMMC flash.

The eMMC flash chip is soldered in and not easily replaceable, but I'm working on a repair procedure for this. It's cost is under 10 dollars even in low quantity, so the bulk of the repair cost is going to be the labor to remove (and reinstall) the MCU from the car, which takes about an hour, and the more extensive and highly specialized work to remove the bad eMMC and install a new one. Then the data must be recovered from the old one and the operating system recreated on the new one. When the eMMC dies, there is usually some corruption so sometimes this can take awhile, or I'll just start "fresh" and the car will be all reset to factory conditions. Not easy, but I expect this will cost a small fraction of what Tesla is charging and I will also be able to offer a much better warranty.

Sadly, unless Tesla takes action now, probably all cars are going to succumb to this at some point.

I can't say how Tesla fixes these when the "refurb" them, but likely they just install a new Tegra module and toss the old one, as the rework like I'll be doing is difficult and specialized. I would replace the module too, except Tesla will not sell them.

Does the constant logging of applications like TeslaLog and various mobile apps create the same "over logging" problem, and should we avoid them? My March 2015 just went over 50,000 mi. After reading this, I'm glad I purchased ESA.

Thanks for your knowledge!

 

[Dukeybootie]

I am one of those people who intends to keep the car for at least 8 years (e.g. the duration of the warranty on the battery and motors). At the same time, I am a high mileage driver averaging 25,000 miles per year. I will need to decide on the ESA in the next 10 months and am still on the fence. Factors include:

-Cost of ESA ($4000) plus deductible ($200 per visit)
-Cost of MCU replacement ($5000)
-High mileage driving which means the ESA only takes me to 4 years/100,000 miles

Looking at the exclusions in the ESA, the following are NOT covered:

-shock absorbers (I have coils anyway, but worth pointing out for the air suspension crowd)
-12V battery
-battery cables
-lenses, light bulbs, sealed beams (which I interpret to mean "headlight or taillight assembly")
-hoses, A/C lines or connections

Bottom line, looks like I would likely need ESA coverage for MCU, IP (replaced once for free already), charger (not covered under battery/motor warranty from what I understand), and incidentals such as door handles and folding mirrors. The excluded items would be out of pocket regardless. What have others decided on doing in similar situations? Any out of warranty experiences thus far?

 

[Electric Joe]

If the display is bad now and still under warranty, why not report it to Tesla now and get it fixed?

I was trying to keep my post brief, but yes, I know. I reported it and Tesla is working on diagnosing it right now. I got a loaner this morning and am not unhappy with Tesla's service; it's just the root problem -- expensive, failure-prone parts -- that worries me.

I should also mention that, at least in my case, when the MCU fails, lots of other functions are also unavailable. You might think that I can at least control the climate system using the steering wheel buttons but they don't work and just show a grayed out fan icon on the instrument cluster. Same for music. The cellular and wifi connectivity is off, so using the iPhone app to control heat isn't an option. Even the thermometer doesn't work and the temperature is displayed as "-- degrees". A failed center screen can really be a big problem.

 

[neroden]

Not easy, but I expect this will cost a small fraction of what Tesla is charging and I will also be able to offer a much better warranty.

Ingineer, when my extended warranty expires, I'm probably going to want to contract with you to maintain my car.

If Tesla continues their intransigent and stupid policy of not releasing the repair manuals, that is. If they release the manuals I'm sure there will be a lot more indepdendent service techs. If they don't, can I get priority in your queue for February of 2021? Because you'll have a lot of business.

 

[Ingineer]

Happy to help!

 

[croman]

The theory that these car will be less expensive to maintain has proven to be false, which is very sad. It was one of the core reasons we bought into the "Tesla" story.

The messed up thing is that they shouldn't be so expensive. My leaf has required $6 worth of washer fluid and a net set of wiper blades in 3 years. Maybe I was lucky but I think Tesla's desire to push the limit comes with a cost to the consumer (sometimes unknown or contrary to their sales pitch).

 

[mbk6]

Is it the eMMC on the Nvidia VCM card, or is it located on a Tesla pcb?
https://goo.gl/BOrgI8

Perhaps the Nvidia VCM can be ordered at Audi
Nvidia turbocharges the 2016 Audi TT's virtual cockpit with gaming-speed 60fps graphics

 

[Electric Joe]

I reported it and Tesla is working on diagnosing it right now...

Just wanted to follow up as a data point for anyone interested. Tesla ended up replacing my MCU under warranty. When I got my car back all touchscreen functions worked as expected (yay!) but all of my customizations were gone, including driver profiles, music favorites, GPS locations, web browser bookmarks, etc. No biggie, really. But speaking to Tesla's quality of service, I was disappointed that the loaner's driver door handle broke the day I got the car, so I had to climb in through the passenger side every time I got in the car for a week. (They sent a ranger to fix that at my house, but it took a week due to the holiday.) And the glove box button in my own car no longer works after the MCU replacement, so I can't open the glove box. And there's a greasy smear on my headliner. I'm having someone come back out tomorrow to address those two things. I would sum up Tesla's warranty service quality as both "very good" and "somewhat poor" based on this and prior experiences.

 

[3mp_kwh]

What I'd be pissed about is if I had to pay for both the Center console computer plus the LCD. Those are separate components so why did you have to pay for both?

It's no different in the Volt, except the media box costs closer to $500, not $5,000. I've taken that unit out a couple times, and it didn't matter that only the NAV gyro was faulty. The whole thing gets swapped for new (or not?). Fortunately, I was a ~month out of warranty and covered.

Tesla's MCU may as well be the car's Achilles heel, given its cost, complexity and frequency of failure. I thought this thread was going to be about the bubble issue, in the screen's margins. We owe a lot of thanks to Ingineer for diagnosing faults, and what sounds like an ability to return a plug/play solution. I thought the whole dash had to come out to do one of these?

Lastly, I'd rather live with 6k in post-warranty repair costs, than 3k under a $4k/$200 deductible ESA. From the sounds of it, the MCU isn't actually a $4-5k repair in the first place.

 

[Roger_wilco]

'This is EV, less parts to repair' sounds good but it appears they are equalizing things some other way. Losing ground...

 

[glhs272]

I am one of those people who intends to keep the car for at least 8 years (e.g. the duration of the warranty on the battery and motors). At the same time, I am a high mileage driver averaging 25,000 miles per year. I will need to decide on the ESA in the next 10 months and am still on the fence. Factors include:

-Cost of ESA ($4000) plus deductible ($200 per visit)
-Cost of MCU replacement ($5000)
-High mileage driving which means the ESA only takes me to 4 years/100,000 miles

Looking at the exclusions in the ESA, the following are NOT covered:

-shock absorbers (I have coils anyway, but worth pointing out for the air suspension crowd)
-12V battery
-battery cables
-lenses, light bulbs, sealed beams (which I interpret to mean "headlight or taillight assembly")
-hoses, A/C lines or connections

Bottom line, looks like I would likely need ESA coverage for MCU, IP (replaced once for free already), charger (not covered under battery/motor warranty from what I understand), and incidentals such as door handles and folding mirrors. The excluded items would be out of pocket regardless. What have others decided on doing in similar situations? Any out of warranty experiences thus far?

Well I have precisely the exact same situation as you. Want to keep the car a long while. Drive 25K or more miles a year. I decided that I would rather stick the $4K (ESA cost) + $1K(about 5 visits worth of deductibles)=$5K in a savings account. That way if some repairs are needed, I have ready cash to dispense. Also, the savings account does not expire after the car hits 100K miles like the ESA would.

Now this leaves open the door for a major problem/setback such as multiple door handle failures and a screen failure where I would lose out compared to the ESA (battery and drive unit still covered under warranty). But considering how well my car had been working up to that decision point, I considered those issues to be unlikely during the 2 years/50K miles that the ESA would be valid for me. So it's a calculated gamble to be sure, but I think the odds are in my favor. I don't think Tesla looses money on these Extended Service Agreements overall (even though I am sure there are some cars out there that are very much money losers for Tesla) or they would be even more expensive.

So my calculated gamble has been working out so far, but I have 11K more miles to go before I reach 100K miles. I have been very pleased overall with the quality of my car. I think I have been somewhat lucky and Tesla actually builds a pretty decent car no matter what some others say.

Long term though I echo some of the concerns others have here over Tesla's lack of service manual, restricted parts, and other customer unfriendly behaviors. Eventually my car is going to need a lot of servicing to keep it going. The current service model just doesn't work for high mileage heavily worn cars. They simply become too expensive to maintain. Low cost of refurbished units for MCUs, Drive Units, Door handles, chargers, and etc are a must in the long term to keep these soon to be old cars on the road. I would think that if Tesla doesn't go after this, that they will be opening themselves up to part "pirates" or the like who are clever enough to repair a 5K MCU for a lot less than what Tesla is charging for a replacement MCU. Perhaps a new business opportunity for someone...

 

[Ingineer]

Just wanted to follow up as a data point for anyone interested. Tesla ended up replacing my MCU under warranty. When I got my car back all touchscreen functions worked as expected (yay!) but all of my customizations were gone, including driver profiles, music favorites, GPS locations, web browser bookmarks, etc. No biggie, really. But speaking to Tesla's quality of service, I was disappointed that the loaner's driver door handle broke the day I got the car, so I had to climb in through the passenger side every time I got in the car for a week. (They sent a ranger to fix that at my house, but it took a week due to the holiday.) And the glove box button in my own car no longer works after the MCU replacement, so I can't open the glove box. And there's a greasy smear on my headliner. I'm having someone come back out tomorrow to address those two things. I would sum up Tesla's warranty service quality as both "very good" and "somewhat poor" based on this and prior experiences.

Thanks for the update. Your loss of profile data definitely indicates an eMMC failure, otherwise they would have been able to copy it over. I think this is going to only get worse and worse.

The glovebox failure is simply because the tech forgot to plug in the connector when re-assembling the trim. (The grease spot is a similar human error)

Is your car's odometer correct?

 

[jaguar36]

Thanks for the update. Your loss of profile data definitely indicates an eMMC failure, otherwise they would have been able to copy it over. I think this is going to only get worse and worse.

Tesla doesn't always copy over the data even if the eMMC hasn't failed. When our MCU was replaced due to a yellow streak on the LCD we lost all the profile data.

 

[apacheguy]

My MCU was swapped due to the bubbles. All profile data was copied. Odd that they don't always do this.

 

[apacheguy]

Is it the eMMC on the Nvidia VCM card, or is it located on a Tesla pcb?
https://goo.gl/BOrgI8

Perhaps the Nvidia VCM can be ordered at Audi
Nvidia turbocharges the 2016 Audi TT's virtual cockpit with gaming-speed 60fps graphics

Is the eMMC a BGA component? If so soldering shouldn't be too difficult. Greater difficulty is figuring out how to flash the Tesla firmware.

 

[Electric Joe]

The glovebox failure is simply because the tech forgot to plug in the connector when re-assembling the trim. Is your car's odometer correct?

Yes, the odometer is correct. Is that sometimes an issue? There was a weird trip meter the day I got the car back. It showed that the most recent drive was actually more miles than the distance since last charge, which is not possible. I reset that trip meter and it's fine now, but struck me as strange.

And as a final follow-up to my mini-saga, a ranger came out today and reconnected that glovebox button in about 10 minutes. He also cleaned the mess on the headliner and replaced the curling (and filthy!) front floor mats, just as a courtesy. Again, service swings between top-notch (today) and less so (previous visit).

 

[cgiGuy]

I think you have to buy it before 4 years or 50k miles. (You can't buy it after your factory warranty is expired.)

You also can't buy it unless you are the original owner.

Technically, you can. The wording on Tesla.com is:

"Coverage lasts for four years or 50,000 miles (whichever comes first) and begins on the date your warranty expires, as long as you purchase this service within 30 days of your warranty’s expiration."

I know someone is going to say "but they mean within 30 days BEFORE the warranty expires." But that doesn't really make sense.. because that would mean you can't buy it 45 days (or 6 months, or 2 years) before the warranty expires.

So, I REALLY hope that OP's 51K miles wasn't still within 30 days of when his odometer crossed 50K, or else he would have qualified for the ESA. At least that's what it looks like to me.

 

[Frechtman]

51k miles and center screen went black after a reset.
Tesla called and said the center screen was dead.
Cost 4300 for screen around 4900 after labor and taxes.

After some Tums I swallowed that, but the following issues were worse.

1. I requested that the broken screen to be returned to me. Tesla initially said it had to go back to the factory. After reviewing consumer protection laws with them they decided to give it to me. The back and forth delayed the return of my car by 2 days.
2. Due to this I asked if the installed screen was a new unit or rebuilt. It was rebuilt. I pointed out that this was likely illegal as they did not disclose this to me in the estimate.
3. Warranty is 1 year and I think 12k miles, ie 8 months of driving for me.

My guess is that the electrical shorts seen in early models are likely confined to a chip or circuit board that can be replaced for 100's of dollars and Tesla is reselling these screens without disclosing this for 1000's of dollars. If true this blows a rather large hole in Elon's statement that repair services would not be a profit center for Tesla. It also raises the question of the monopoly they have on repairs and the their ability to create business for themselves via their wireless connection to the car. I certainly don't think they are doing this as they are trying to build a company, but eventually they will be run by the same type of management that runs the cable companies. I fully support Tesla's right to sell cars without a dealership but the monopoly on repairs is a concern. The fact that they may be using it as a significant profit center amplifies this concern.

Any disgruntled Tesla employee's out there who want to let me know how to fix my old centerscreen?

My screen

51k miles and center screen went black after a reset.
Tesla called and said the center screen was dead.
Cost 4300 for screen around 4900 after labor and taxes.

After some Tums I swallowed that, but the following issues were worse.

1. I requested that the broken screen to be returned to me. Tesla initially said it had to go back to the factory. After reviewing consumer protection laws with them they decided to give it to me. The back and forth delayed the return of my car by 2 days.
2. Due to this I asked if the installed screen was a new unit or rebuilt. It was rebuilt. I pointed out that this was likely illegal as they did not disclose this to me in the estimate.
3. Warranty is 1 year and I think 12k miles, ie 8 months of driving for me.

My guess is that the electrical shorts seen in early models are likely confined to a chip or circuit board that can be replaced for 100's of dollars and Tesla is reselling these screens without disclosing this for 1000's of dollars. If true this blows a rather large hole in Elon's statement that repair services would not be a profit center for Tesla. It also raises the question of the monopoly they have on repairs and the their ability to create business for themselves via their wireless connection to the car. I certainly don't think they are doing this as they are trying to build a company, but eventually they will be run by the same type of management that runs the cable companies. I fully support Tesla's right to sell cars without a dealership but the monopoly on repairs is a concern. The fact that they may be using it as a significant profit center amplifies this concern.

Any disgruntled Tesla employee's out there who want to let me know how to fix my old centerscreen?

My screen went blank after two months into taking delivery of my 2017 MX. Prior to that, my driver seat did not work properly. Also, the autopresenting door did not work except for the one time demonstration when I first got the car. The staff did however have problem into demonstrating this feature. And yes, I have the PUP. I have a feeling that the autopresenting door demo. was staged.

Now, I have to wait a week to turn in my car for repair. Tesla car is not reliable. The built is so questionable. I hear more wind noise in my MX than any cars that I've driven. The perforated seats are so cheaply made. The holes on the seat are varied sizes. This MX is definitely a lemon. I am so pissed. Am I the only one who feels this way?

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Does the constant logging of applications like TeslaLog and various mobile apps create the same "over logging" problem, and should we avoid them? My March 2015 just went over 50,000 mi. After reading this, I'm glad I purchased ESA.

Thanks for your knowledge!

What about all the AP data that's sent back to Tesla. Is this part of the logging that is wearing out the MCU component flash dealy bobber? They should be giving us a lot better deal for the replacement of this part if they're the ones causing it to wear out while building their AP empire.

 

[davidc18]

My screen

My screen went blank after two months into taking delivery of my 2017 MX. Prior to that, my driver seat did not work properly. Also, the autopresenting door did not work except for the one time demonstration when I first got the car. The staff did however have problem into demonstrating this feature. And yes, I have the PUP. I have a feeling that the autopresenting door demo. was staged.

Now, I have to wait a week to turn in my car for repair. Tesla car is not reliable. The built is so questionable. I hear more wind noise in my MX than any cars that I've driven. The perforated seats are so cheaply made. The holes on the seat are varied sizes. This MX is definitely a lemon. I am so pissed. Am I the only one who feels this way?

Lemon Law is your friend. Easy to do.