Super informative thank you. Really helpful walking me through your experience. I am curious to understand the difference between a User-initiated lane change and a NoA lane change (guessing this one doesn't require confirmation). I was able to get it for $10K still. Still going back and forth in my head but feel pretty good about it. I was able to lock in the MY with last April's pricing $12K less than today's base price ($14K if you include $2k less I am paying for FSD). It's also good to keep in mine FSD isn't just about convenience but about safety and I like the idea of having an extra system to keep my family and I safer.I'll add my vote that you should feel comfortable getting it if:
I know it still falls short of the stated/implied goals and expectations (what doesn't in life?) but I don't regret the purchase at all.
- You're fairly interested technically
- You can still get it for $10K (what a deal!
)
- You don't think your life will be lesser for having spent the money, when you look back on it a year from now.
As opposed to many opinions expressed already, I don't find that FSD's utility depends on road-tripping or limited-access highway driving. I use FSD (non-Beta) mostly on median- or center--turn-lane- divided suburban-type roads with traffic-light intersections. The Traffic Light and Stop-Sign Control feature, though requiring confirmation as a lead car, works very well and allows you to pay more attention, not less I think, to defensive observation of potential cross-traffic and other threats. Yes you still have to observe everything, but you spend somewhat less time staring at the upcoming light to see if it's going to change.
On these medium-type roads, the user-initiated auto lane change is good, and here again it increases confidence - not because you stop paying attention (l still check mirror and blind-spot over my shoulder before invoking it), but it helps watch for developing last-second situations as you continue to look in all directions. The occasional times I do Interstate driving, I've actually preferred this feature over the NoA lane-change; the latter seems to be a little more quirky but I haven't used it a lot. By the way, if I didn't have this feature I would be particularly annoyed at the car's very poor visibility to the rear.
I do expect that there may be some changes, both improvements and possible regressions, as the legacy Autopilot software stack gets replaced by the merged stack that will derive from the City Streets project. For example, I'm guessing (without direct knowledge) that they may remove the confirmation chime for FSD-Autopilot even when you're not asking the car to navigate turns for you. But in doing so, it may for example react more nervously to cross-traffic threats. Basically, you should assume that what you're paying for today will change and evolve, generally towards more capability in the wide-release FSD version, but certainly with some annoyances along the way that'll require you to re-adapt to the car's behavior on familiar routes.
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Debating adding FSD to existing order at $10K
- Thread starter Firocity
- Start date
I have heard from my SA that FSD doesn't transfer if I sell the car in the future. Is there a clear answer on this?
Compared to most others here, I'm not very experienced with NoA. But this is what I think I observed and I invite others to set me straight if needed:
in standard paid-FSD Autopilot, you request a lane change by a simple full-push and release of the turn-signal stalk (the same action used to get a left or right activation of the turn signal in manual control, i.e. not the half-press that gives only a momentary three-blink indication). The car then checks the clearances for itself, and if clear it executes a smooth lane change. It will cancel if someone darts into the danger zone before completion.
In my limited trial of NoA on the interstate, it seemed that I could request a lane change but I had to actively hold the stalk (full-down to move left, full-up to move right). If I gave up on actively holding it before the car had completed the lane change maneuver, it would abruptly cancel and throw itself back into the original lane - regardless of any perceived threat. This behavior seemed inconsistent with the non-NoA FSD lane-change, and it was uncomfortable enough (for me) that I decided to stick with the more familiar AP mode, forgoing NoA.
Here I'm not talking about NoA-initiated lane-changes, which i think can be full-auto or require confirmation based on a preference setting.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Before I got FSD beta I found the stoplight detection to be virtually flawless. As one would expect, with FSD it will proceed through a stoplight as appropriate. I wouldn’t be surprised if at least that functionality is extended outside of the beta program sometime soon.
The general consensus is that if you buy it at the time of purchase yes. If it was added after purchase or if the car ever passes through Tesla’s control/ownership it’s less clear. Unfortunately I haven’t seen any official statement from Tesla on this.
SA is incorrect. FSD does transfer, although it is unlikely that you will get much value from it when transferred.
To answer this I think we have to clarify what is meant by "transfer".
FSD that you buy for your current car does not transfer to a different Tesla that you acquire or may already own.
Many of us think that this is not a great policy, but it is the policy at this time, and Tesla has shown no willingness to reconsider.
If you sell the car privately, not to Tesla, FSD stays with the car and therefore "transfers" to the new owner. Reported confusion over this point usually stems from people who bought the car from a dealer, who in turn acquired it at an auction after it was traded in to Tesla. That means Tesla owned it at least briefly and were entitled to remove the FSD. Compounding the confusion is that sometimes the removal of FSD is delayed, and may appear to be active at the time of the dealer sale. Even further confusion can come from a car that has FSD expire from a lingering monthly subscription or a trial activation. Less-than-honest owners who understand these possible confusions may try to take advantage of them by deliberately creating these conditions. IMO, this is one of the reasons that used-car dealers are themselves confused and frustrated about the FSD issue, and it has contributed to the devaluation of FSD in the used market.
Thank you, that makes a stronger case for me to get FSD. Like OP I'm expecting delivery this week. My SA also said if I total the car I'd lose FSD, and would need to pay for it again if I decide to get another Tesla. Is that part true?
That is true, but if you buy the FSD with the car and/or clearly document the addition of FSD to your insurance company, it becomes part of the value of the car that needs to be replaced after an accident.
Yes, but I was told if you purchase FSD with the car, it is covered under insurance. Curious what other's thoughts are on this.
I strongly disagree with this. It's not as though FSD is an added safety system that will assist in an emergency... although standard autopilot does include some of those features (e.g. automatic emergency braking).
FSD is a complete takeover by the software that you enable, during which you are responsible for the software's mistakes at a moments notice. I'm sure you're already aware of this.
My opinion is that beta testing autonomous driving software makes you *less* safe, as you are literally assisting Tesla with "working out the kinks", and with hardware that may ultimately prove to be incapable of resolving many of the edge cases.
Tesla's PR department has said things like "bajillion miles and not a single accident", but it's really skewing the truth. Many accidents that FSD would have caused were narrowly avoided because the human driver took control and avoided the accident. There are certainly YouTube videos proving this, I've watched several of them.
Beta testing autonomous driving software with your family in the car gives me a really bad feeling.
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sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Agreed - the safety systems (like automatic braking) are included on every car. Unless you’re such A bad driver that FSD drives better than you do….
boonedocks
MS LR Blk/Blk 19”
Since the OP's question seemed to relate more to "long road trips with the family" I would recommend renting FSD when you need and want it. You wouldn't have to pay for it monthly or go all in for the times you are on your road trips.
I have pre-paid for FSD 3 times and opted for FSD rental this time around. The resale value may prove to be something in the future but last 2 Model S resales did NOT give me any kind of return worth having pre-paid for it.
I have pre-paid for FSD 3 times and opted for FSD rental this time around. The resale value may prove to be something in the future but last 2 Model S resales did NOT give me any kind of return worth having pre-paid for it.
And you'd have to do a LOT of road tripping to equal fully purchasing it. In the OP's case, $10k. That's 50 months of subscription... and unless you're a nomad, would almost certainly not happen within the useful life of the car.
I could never recommend FSD. Not only because I don't believe it works well enough, but the price is now outrageous. If it drove perfectly, 100% accident free (e.g. take a nap in the backseat) then *maybe* it'd almost be worth its price tag... but probably not. Driving's just not that hard.
One thing to take in mind, which has been brought up by others on TMC, other manufacturers that have L1 or L2 features require you to upgrade to a higher trim in order to get them. In some cases, the "premium" trims cost more than what Tesla charges for FSD. So, when people say that $10K or $12K is an outrageous amount, if you had another car from another manufacturer, you may be paying more. 
boonedocks
MS LR Blk/Blk 19”
I am pretty sure he bought a Tesla tho....well....I am certain he did LOLIn some cases, the "premium" trims cost more than what Tesla charges for FSD. So, when people say that $10K or $12K is an outrageous amount, if you had another car from another manufacturer, you may be paying more.
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That is true but the higher trim always commands a higher price for resale. Also the higher trim comes with other features besides fancy cruise control.One thing to take in mind, which has been brought up by others on TMC, other manufacturers that have L1 or L2 features require you to upgrade to a higher trim in order to get them. In some cases, the "premium" trims cost more than what Tesla charges for FSD. So, when people say that $10K or $12K is an outrageous amount, if you had another car from another manufacturer, you may be paying more.
Personally I would skip a Tesla where they're trying to inflate the price for a software upgrade.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Right now, I would skip everything if I could. Prices are completely out of whack for everything - EVs, ICE cars, Tesla and everyone else. Tesla has increased their base price by $10k and the price of FSD on top of that. For other makes not only are you unable to negotiate but dealers are demanding $10k markups on top of MSRP So you get the joy of getting screwed by a dealer even more! A local Ford dealer requires a ‘qualified trade in’ to buy a new F150 - they won’t sell you a new truck, at sticker price without a trade in. it’s insane!
If you can afford to wait a year or two with your current car it would probably make sense and from an environmental perspective, driving your current car longer is always better than buying a new car (unless your current car is the Exxon Valdez…)
And hopefully seeing that some other EVs cost similar amounts for their L1 and L2 features will take some of the sting away for his FSD purchase.
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