Debating new Model S LR+

[TechOps]

Here is my experience. I have a August 2017 MS75 (uncorked). I have also been considering the same move as you. Today, I went to a Tesla showroom and test drove a Performance version with a couple hundred miles on it (they didn't have a LR+ in stock). My feelings:

+ Raven suspension is very nice. It's better than the coil & spring I have. But not incredibly better.
+ Power, obviously, will be better, but my 4.3s RWD 75 is actually quite powerful and enough for me personally. I previously had a corked 75, and I would definitely want to upgrade from that. Ludicrous mode is fast! and fun. The LR+ will also have great power.
+/- MCU2 would be great but I can upgrade to that for $2500 if needed. I also have AP2.0 like you, so no dash cam. That's the one main thing I'm missing.
+/- While I thought I wanted the white interior, it was blindingly bright in the sunlight. definitely test drive before you get it.
- Would lose unlimited supercharging. I like to take 1-2 road trips per year, so it's not a big deal economically; more of a mental thing.
- Would lose unlimited connectivity. So factor in that monthly cost too. Again, not a big deal.
- I will miss my real-leather steering wheel. I have a second 2018 MS75D, and I don't like the plastic feeling vinyl wheel. Small thing but it's a pet peeve!

I recently did a week-long road trip from CA to TX. Range was annoying. This is the most compelling reason to upgrade, but waiting another year will undoubtedly bring more range.

My trade-in value w/ 41k miles is $38.2k. The new purchase price would be around $72-73k. That's a $35k premium.

Before the test drive, I was 70% in favor of upgrading. Now, I think I'm about 30%. Fundamentally, it's the same car, with just a bunch of incremental improvements. If there were an interior refresh or some other "big" cool thing, I would pull the trigger today. But already having what is in essence the same generation car, I'm still on the fence. $35k is a big premium for that.

Sorry, that it wasn't that helpful. These are just my data points and thought process thus far. Would love to hear what you decide as well.

 

[TechOps]

I should also say, I was unpleasantly surprised by the Tempest wheels. While they look OK, they are wheel covers -- plastic wheel covers don't belong on a $70k+ car.

 

[BioSci]

I should also say, I was unpleasantly surprised by the Tempest wheels. While they look OK, they are wheel covers -- plastic wheel covers don't belong on a $70k+ car.

Turns out you can remove the plastic wheel covers and put in a black hub to finish the alloy wheels underneath. Here's what they look like on a new MS LR+.

 

[Grassright]

Here is my experience. I have a August 2017 MS75 (uncorked). I have also been considering the same move as you. Today, I went to a Tesla showroom and test drove a Performance version with a couple hundred miles on it (they didn't have a LR+ in stock). My feelings:

+ Raven suspension is very nice. It's better than the coil & spring I have. But not incredibly better.
+ Power, obviously, will be better, but my 4.3s RWD 75 is actually quite powerful and enough for me personally. I previously had a corked 75, and I would definitely want to upgrade from that. Ludicrous mode is fast! and fun. The LR+ will also have great power.
+/- MCU2 would be great but I can upgrade to that for $2500 if needed. I also have AP2.0 like you, so no dash cam. That's the one main thing I'm missing.
+/- While I thought I wanted the white interior, it was blindingly bright in the sunlight. definitely test drive before you get it.
- Would lose unlimited supercharging. I like to take 1-2 road trips per year, so it's not a big deal economically; more of a mental thing.
- Would lose unlimited connectivity. So factor in that monthly cost too. Again, not a big deal.
- I will miss my real-leather steering wheel. I have a second 2018 MS75D, and I don't like the plastic feeling vinyl wheel. Small thing but it's a pet peeve!

I recently did a week-long road trip from CA to TX. Range was annoying. This is the most compelling reason to upgrade, but waiting another year will undoubtedly bring more range.

My trade-in value w/ 41k miles is $38.2k. The new purchase price would be around $72-73k. That's a $35k premium.

Before the test drive, I was 70% in favor of upgrading. Now, I think I'm about 30%. Fundamentally, it's the same car, with just a bunch of incremental improvements. If there were an interior refresh or some other "big" cool thing, I would pull the trigger today. But already having what is in essence the same generation car, I'm still on the fence. $35k is a big premium for that.

Sorry, that it wasn't that helpful. These are just my data points and thought process thus far. Would love to hear what you decide as well.

Exactly. I test drove Raven model S/X. Driving dynamic wise, there is very little improvement over my model S (with regular air suspension). I am still waiting for a major refresh.

 

[Ksemeh]

There is no more EV credits from Fed/State now, but there was up to $10,000 in 2017.

 

[whitex]

did you really need to make this comment ... i don't think so ....it is not very helpful

i am less concerned about the price ... i don't think you actually looked a the table TBH ...

i my memory is correct the equivalent vehicle to the LR+ in 2017 was the P100D with many of the options i think probably over $100K at that time ... so i beg to differ

it shows how much additional feature functionality is in a roughly equivalent price(not account for time value of $) .. hence the pace of innovation at Tesla ... which also convinced me to lease this time around as it makes no sense to purchase a Tesla with the pace of improvement

I think what @ucmndd is saying is that how much the car costed 4 years ago is completely meaningless, "sunk cost" concept in economic terms. I don't think he was trying to pick on you, if he did, he might have pointed out that your "Price *" and then "* $2000 in 2020" makes no sense - obviously the keyboard got away from you there, or it's a "*" from some other footnote you since removed.

The decision you're trying to make calls for a comparison of "How much will it cost me to upgrade" vs. "What will I get for that". Some of the table you have put together goes towards that goal. @TechOps has a good analysis of his thought process - $35K to upgrade to get the same car with some incremental features (here is where your table comparing features would fit in). Personally I think the cost would be slightly higher, after taxes, increased insurance and likely registration costs (many states charge more for tabs per year for new cars than older ones, plus most don't refund prorated tabs so you lose money by not upgrading to a new car at the exact renewal time). You could almost get a new Model 3 SR for that.

Of course if you're simply trying to rationalize getting a new car, then definitely factor in the enjoyment of getting a new car, perhaps that feeling is worth thousands of dollars - after all, happiness is priceless. Nothing wrong with buying for pleasure if you can afford it, especially nowadays with all COVID lockdowns.

 

[whitex]

Turns out you can remove the plastic wheel covers and put in a black hub to finish the alloy wheels underneath. Here's what they look like on a new MS LR+.

View attachment 599576

This looks better than with plastic hubcaps but doesn't look like it belongs on a Model S for some reason. Even the wheel under the Model 3 plastic covers looks better. Maybe it's just me, my favorite Model S wheel was the original pre-slipstream 19" wheels. Arachnoids look great too if I wanted 21".

 

[David_Cary]

Techops - that was actually very helpful.
If Raven isn't that much better, I can't justify the cost - even if the cost is $5k less than a week ago.

As far as cost, I look at dollars per day. $35k (or in my case $45k) is not the most helpful metric.
To me, my current car is running about $11 a day and a new S is about $30 a day. I don't pay much for insurance and my tax value is still at $60k on my 2015 so won't be significantly higher on a new car. Interest is maybe $2 a day.
It is just depreciation. Now at $3k a year vs $10k a year, that is the real comparison. I factor $1k per year repairs which I have been running below so I can "afford" a higher dollar repair. Even at $2k a year, there is still a significant daily cost difference.

It is guessing of course but a $70k car is somewhere like
$10k - 1st year
$8k - 2nd year
$6,500 - 3rd
$6,500 4th (additional hit for warranty expiration)

So after 4 years, worth $39k. Your 2017 did decidedly worse but a good chunk of that was Tesla price drops which won't continue at the same pace (IMO). The refresh will take perhaps an additional $5k off instantly though but that will reduce the future drops a bit.

 

[Kandiru]

OP think rational, suspension components, computers, drive units, battery packs will all fail in time.

You will never know how the previous owner used the car, maibe he drove on poor roads (suspension), aggressively uphill ignoring warnings (drive units, battery life), and only charging car has ever seen was supercharging to max as he was renting (big boo boo on battery life), these will affect your car significantly.

No matter what they say about the range, more range is better. You will yourself in situations on the road where you will not regret it, especially with real winters (big time range loss).

For the above and the price it is a no brainer, get the new car.

 

[popgodazipa]

Model 3 does not meet my requirements for looks and size ... i know a lot of folks think Model S is dead but its not what range is model 3? this is the model S thread

and more importantly my wife like the model S ... so there's that

I don't understand the M3 owners who hate on MS threads..it just seems odd, a subject for another post maybe.

OP other than the hate squad you've got some good comments on this thread. I have the SLR+ 20 and I can't compare it to the 2017. I can not imagine not having the extra range. I'm in Houston and it's 30 minutes to anything and any out of city drive is 3 hrs, I find it invaluable. The air suspension really shines at higher speeds IMO...I never feel out of control, just a smooth gliding sensation and Houston is not known for great streets. Styling IMO is still tops compared to the other models but it's all subjective at that point.

It's not all perfect (totally agree with comment on the Tempest, that should not be on a base S) but after test driving all the other Tesla models and comparing the quality record of the lot the S continues to be the stand out. In fact I started out with intentions of buying a Y or 3...the S was the last one I drove and only because I happened to have an extra 30 minutes after my X test drive.

Having said that it seems like there may be some big range improvements on the horizon. If I had any hesitation or a reason to wait it would be for more range.

 

[Zero CO2]

Like I said man, you want to get a new car, get a new car.

Seems we probably approach these decisions from different perspectives. "The equivalent vehicle to the LR+ in 2017 was the P100D with many of the options i think probably over $100K at that time", nor the "pace of improvement" would have any bearing on whether or not I need/want a new car. I honestly can't decipher how that plays into the decision at all.

But, again. You do you. If this is the sort of convincing you need to pull the trigger... by all means.

Dude ... not sure what your problem is .. my OP was to ask Model S experts to check my feature table for accuracy... again ... not sure why you feel the need to keep responding here ... since you have nothing of value to contribute ...

To me, if you know you are the type of person who needs a new car every 3 year, then lease is better option. (and looks like you are since yours was 2017)
Otherwise buy is always the better option if you are the type to have the car for longer term.

nope i bought my 2017 and i am concluding a mistake that is why considering lease ... the innovation pace at Tesla has my MS 2017 looking quite obsolete

for ICE vehicles i would keep 10 years plus ... then purchase makes sense

 

[Zero CO2]

Here is my experience. I have a August 2017 MS75 (uncorked). I have also been considering the same move as you. Today, I went to a Tesla showroom and test drove a Performance version with a couple hundred miles on it (they didn't have a LR+ in stock). My feelings:

+ Raven suspension is very nice. It's better than the coil & spring I have. But not incredibly better.
+ Power, obviously, will be better, but my 4.3s RWD 75 is actually quite powerful and enough for me personally. I previously had a corked 75, and I would definitely want to upgrade from that. Ludicrous mode is fast! and fun. The LR+ will also have great power.
+/- MCU2 would be great but I can upgrade to that for $2500 if needed. I also have AP2.0 like you, so no dash cam. That's the one main thing I'm missing.
+/- While I thought I wanted the white interior, it was blindingly bright in the sunlight. definitely test drive before you get it.
- Would lose unlimited supercharging. I like to take 1-2 road trips per year, so it's not a big deal economically; more of a mental thing.
- Would lose unlimited connectivity. So factor in that monthly cost too. Again, not a big deal.
- I will miss my real-leather steering wheel. I have a second 2018 MS75D, and I don't like the plastic feeling vinyl wheel. Small thing but it's a pet peeve!

I recently did a week-long road trip from CA to TX. Range was annoying. This is the most compelling reason to upgrade, but waiting another year will undoubtedly bring more range.

My trade-in value w/ 41k miles is $38.2k. The new purchase price would be around $72-73k. That's a $35k premium.

Before the test drive, I was 70% in favor of upgrading. Now, I think I'm about 30%. Fundamentally, it's the same car, with just a bunch of incremental improvements. If there were an interior refresh or some other "big" cool thing, I would pull the trigger today. But already having what is in essence the same generation car, I'm still on the fence. $35k is a big premium for that.

Sorry, that it wasn't that helpful. These are just my data points and thought process thus far. Would love to hear what you decide as well.

i think the range is really starting to become a serious issue for me ... so I think I am going to pull the trigger ... all the other improvmentsd are just a bonus

thank you for your thoughtful response ...you added one more item to my list the dash cam which my 2017 does not have ...

 

[Zero CO2]

There is no more EV credits from Fed/State now, but there was up to $10,000 in 2017.

nope got the $7500 + $500 in NYS ... but your point is well taken

 

[Zero CO2]

I think what @ucmndd is saying is that how much the car costed 4 years ago is completely meaningless, "sunk cost" concept in economic terms. I don't think he was trying to pick on you, if he did, he might have pointed out that your "Price *" and then "* $2000 in 2020" makes no sense - obviously the keyboard got away from you there, or it's a "*" from some other footnote you since removed.

The decision you're trying to make calls for a comparison of "How much will it cost me to upgrade" vs. "What will I get for that". Some of the table you have put together goes towards that goal. @TechOps has a good analysis of his thought process - $35K to upgrade to get the same car with some incremental features (here is where your table comparing features would fit in). Personally I think the cost would be slightly higher, after taxes, increased insurance and likely registration costs (many states charge more for tabs per year for new cars than older ones, plus most don't refund prorated tabs so you lose money by not upgrading to a new car at the exact renewal time). You could almost get a new Model 3 SR for that.

Of course if you're simply trying to rationalize getting a new car, then definitely factor in the enjoyment of getting a new car, perhaps that feeling is worth thousands of dollars - after all, happiness is priceless. Nothing wrong with buying for pleasure if you can afford it, especially nowadays with all COVID lockdowns.

need to remove the price row from the table as it is getting way off topic for features comparison .... the $2K was for autopilot which I finally broke down and purchased earlier this year which if my memory is correct was $5K back in 2017

 

[Zero CO2]

thanks for all the helpful responses ... my wife gave the green light ... it is a go ... new model S ordered

range increase was my key decision criteria ... 249 mile range was ok in 2017 to get used to driving an EV and commuting back and forth to work etc ... but it was getting a bit inconvenient on and long trips .... 402 miles will make a huge difference in addition to all the other features i don't currently have....

 

[Zero CO2]

This looks better than with plastic hubcaps but doesn't look like it belongs on a Model S for some reason. Even the wheel under the Model 3 plastic covers looks better. Maybe it's just me, my favorite Model S wheel was the original pre-slipstream 19" wheels. Arachnoids look great too if I wanted 21".

i agree the covers look a bit sad ... is the idea better aerodynamics with the covers? .... or did Tesla just cheap out ... range for me is top priority so i will live with the covers if it is a real improvement .... can imagine it provides much range improvement ..

 

[whitex]

i agree the covers look a bit sad ... is the idea better aerodynamics with the covers? .... or did Tesla just cheap out ... range for me is top priority so i will live with the covers if it is a real improvement .... can imagine it provides much range improvement ..

Covers are for range, plastic is for saving Tesla money (allowing cheapest wheels they can find under the plastic).

 

[popgodazipa]

Insane that this car was once $120k can be now had for 60% of that. I can't think of another flagship car from a dealer where the year over year price is actually going down.

Enjoy!

 

[TKTes75]

I also have a 2017 MS75 with EAP and uncorked. I'm on the fence to get the new LR+ as well. The 0.5 sec better 0 to 60 probably won't make much of a difference but I am very intrigued with the new drivetrain and Raven adaptive suspension.

My current EAP has summon, auto lane change, navigate on autopilot and autopark. I know I have to get the 8k FSD or I would be giving all of this up with the new LR+. My question is what about the dash screen? Do the new cars still come with the same graphics showing blind spot, depictions of vehicles, etc?

 

[popgodazipa]

I also have a 2017 MS75 with EAP and uncorked. I'm on the fence to get the new LR+ as well. The 0.5 sec better 0 to 60 probably won't make much of a difference but I am very intrigued with the new drivetrain and Raven adaptive suspension.

My current EAP has summon, auto lane change, navigate on autopilot and autopark. I know I have to get the 8k FSD or I would be giving all of this up with the new LR+. My question is what about the dash screen? Do the new cars still come with the same graphics showing blind spot, depictions of vehicles, etc?

I don't know what the old looks like but yeah there are blind spot depictions that turn red if you try to merge with a vehicle there.