Decided to drive from LA area to SF Bay area without using Superchargers...

[Jeff N]

By the way, I have a new article out today on VW's charging network plans:

VW Reveals Nationwide EV Charging Plans - HybridCars.com

 

[miimura]

Here's a somewhat low-res spreadsheet that captures how the Bolt EV charges today on 125A CCS. [snip]
He speculates on the video about charge rates if his Bolt were plugged into one of the next generation chargers being installed by VW etc. Based on what I've heard, my best guess is that it will look this this alternative case:

In other words, the peak charge current will go up to about 150A from today's 125A. Not a big jump but every little bit helps. Many people think this is pathetic versus an initial charge current of 300-370A on a Tesla at a Supercharger. I agree that it seems oddly low.

As a practical matter, however, 125A seemed adequate to me during my last couple of long road trips in the Bolt when combined with the relatively long battery range. The charging time did not typically exceed the time I spent eating, using the restroom, or doing minor shopping etc.

That is much worse than I expected. The stepped charging rate is very strange, but not unprecedented. The VW e-Golf did something similar when I tested it. In that case, it did constant current charging to 355VDC then dropped quickly to 65 amps. After that it tapered at an intermediate rate until 360VDC, then did a normal constant voltage taper until it stopped at the 30 minute limit. The BTC charger, although only 100 amps, does show amps and volts while charging. The ABB chargers I've used only show kWh delivered and the Efacec shows kW at that moment.

Anyway, by the time you drop below 70A, you might as well start driving again if you can make it to the next charger. The reason I say that is that the charging speed is approaching the consumption while driving on the freeway. That point seems to be about 65%-70% on the Bolt EV instead of the 75% I said earlier, so you will have to stop every 100 miles to remain in the fastest charging SOC window.

 

[Petra]

As a practical matter, however, 125A seemed adequate to me during my last couple of long road trips in the Bolt when combined with the relatively long battery range. The charging time did not typically exceed the time I spent eating, using the restroom, or doing minor shopping etc.

Jeff, I appreciate the work that you do and the articles you write--I really do--but, for myself and many others, the latter half of the above statement is barely true with Tesla's current Supercharger network, let alone networks/cars that peak at like 40% of the power that a Tesla can accept. The goal of my trip was to set aside the enthusiasm and EV optimism and assess the current situation... an assessment which ended up presenting a best case that's about 15% slower than an ICE experience on the same trip and a worst case that's nearly 70% slower. All of the VW investment in the short term (pre-2020) combined with future iterations of non-Tesla EVs will help pull that worst case up to align with the current Tesla experience, yes, but we aren't likely going to be cracking into near enough as makes little difference ICE parity until 350kW charging is widespread and support common... something which I don't see happening within a time frame that would be meaningful to anyone buying a car within the next few years.

Am I wrong in my assumption that people largely make auto purchases based on current core capabilities, rather than the core capability the vehicle might have in 2-3 years?

 

[dhcp]

Am I wrong in my assumption that people largely make auto purchases based on current core capabilities, rather than the core capability the vehicle might have in 2-3 years?

I dunno, I usually buy clothes based on the weight I think I'm going to lose this summer when I kick in that "this time for real" gym program.

 

[Jeff N]

All of the VW investment in the short term (pre-2020) combined with future iterations of non-Tesla EVs will help pull that worst case up to align with the current Tesla experience, yes, but we aren't likely going to be cracking into near enough as makes little difference ICE parity until 350kW charging is widespread and support common... something which I don't see happening within a time frame that would be meaningful to anyone buying a car within the next few years.

Well, you've gotta crawl before you can walk and walk before you can run...

Tesla today is at the walking stage where the rest of the industry has been crawling. This new VW EV infrastructure and pending new car models will bring the larger industry up to the walking level.

I'd say the Bolt EV with new VW charging counts as "walking with a limp". You can absolutely take a Bolt on road trips once this network is in place due to its relatively long battery range but it will be on a relaxing holiday leisurely pace. It wouldn't work well for someone frequently driving long distances -- someone who needs to "run". Someone like that would do much better with "350 kW" charging capability (maybe more like 220 kW in reality) but that capability isn't quite here yet and will remain exotic and expensive for a few more years.

More realistically, someone who needs to drive long distances with rapid "recharging" in the next few years most likely should get a PHEV with a full performance ICE and normal-sized gas tank like a Chevy Volt.

Am I wrong in my assumption that people largely make auto purchases based on current core capabilities, rather than the core capability the vehicle might have in 2-3 years?

Lots of people bought Tesla cars beginning in 2012 on the premise that Supercharging would be rolled-out over the following 2-3 years and are happy that they did.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

More realistically, someone who needs to drive long distances with rapid "recharging" in the next few years most likely should get a PHEV with a full performance ICE and normal-sized gas tank like a Chevy Volt.

One of my issues with the Chevrolet Volt is that in fact it _doesn't_ have a normal-sized gas tank. If it had the same tank size as my Prius it would cut trips to the gas station by 1/3 or more.

 

[Petra]

Well, you've gotta crawl before you can walk and walk before you can run...

Tesla today is at the walking stage where the rest of the industry has been crawling. This new VW EV infrastructure and pending new car models will bring the larger industry up to the walking level.

I'd say the Bolt EV with new VW charging counts as "walking with a limp". You can absolutely take a Bolt on road trips once this network is in place due to its relatively long battery range but it will be on a relaxing holiday leisurely pace. It wouldn't work well for someone frequently driving long distances -- someone who needs to "run". Someone like that would do much better with "350 kW" charging capability (maybe more like 220 kW in reality) but that capability isn't quite here yet and will remain exotic and expensive for a few more years.

More realistically, someone who needs to drive long distances with rapid "recharging" in the next few years most likely should get a PHEV with a full performance ICE and normal-sized gas tank like a Chevy Volt.

Pretty sure we're just violently agreeing at this point

 

[SageBrush]

As a practical matter, however, 125A seemed adequate to me during my last couple of long road trips in the Bolt when combined with the relatively long battery range.

Once you expend your starting charge, this looks like about an hour of charging for every additional two hours of travel. Does that about match your experience ?

 

[Jeff N]

Once you expend your starting charge, this looks like about an hour of charging for every additional two hours of travel. Does that about match your experience ?

Yes, exactly.

Traffic is often a bit slower or congested on the way out of the metro SF area so if I start with a full charge aI might drive ~3 hours. Then, if I'm ready to eat breakfast/lunch etc. I might charge for an hour. If not, then charge for ~30 minutes while getting coffee somewhere and using the facilities. Then drive another hour and stop to eat.

In practice, that Bolt EV cadence worked fine for me . If it had charged in half the time it might have been too quick to have a comfortable meal without feeling the need to rush back quickly yet it would be often too slow to stick around twiddling my thumbs.

Again, fine for relaxed occasional road trips but I'm sure it would get annoying if I was in a rush for some reason or if I was frequently having to drive long trips.

 

[Jeff N]

One of my issues with the Chevrolet Volt is that in fact it _doesn't_ have a normal-sized gas tank. If it had the same tank size as my Prius it would cut trips to the gas station by 1/3 or more.

Well, there are a fair number of ICE cars with a 300'ish mile gas tank range. My old 2004 Prius with the infamous plastic gas tank liner is like that. It personally doesn't bother me to stop at a gas station during a road trip every 4 hours to pump gas for 5 minutes. Once you get to your destination or when at home the new Volt with 50-55 miles of range usually keeps gasoline use to a minimum.

 

[SageBrush]

My old 2004 Prius

I owned that exact model for 10 years and would see 500 - 600 miles from a full tank. I rarely had problems with premature shut-off of fueling since I set the flow to low. I can remember a couple of times that the tank refused to fill more than half-way but the problem sorted itself out by the next refueling.

 

[AlexG]

Let me know if you wanna do a collab video some day

 

[Petra]

Let me know if you wanna do a collab video some day

I'll keep that in mind--I'm usually in the bay area about six times per year or thereabouts.