Deciding on MX 90D Inventory vs 75D new

[bry_bry]

Hi all,

I put a refundable reservation payment for Inventory 90D MX (I was considering new 75D). It seems like a good deal and is my exact specs. The 90D Odometer has 250 miles; and is only $3k more than a new 75D (same spec).

I have 72 hours to decide - keep it, order new 75D, or cancel/refund my reservation.

Questions I'm thinking about:
1. Is the new 75D battery tech better than 90D?
2. Will the new 75D have a future upgrade that 90D does not get?
3. Is 90D price point fair, considering depreciation with 100D?

I've watched a ton of youtube and read many helpful threads here. I appreciate any guidance on the pros/cons.. am I missing something? if this is a good deal? Thanks!

Specs below
Model X 90D
Price: $107,500
Odometer: 250 miles

• All-Wheel Drive
• Obsidian Black Metallic Paint
• 20" Silver Wheels
• Ultra White Seats
• Dark Ash Wood Décor
• Front Console
• Black Alcantara Headliner
• Six Seat Interior
• Enhanced Autopilot
• Premium Upgrades Package
• Smart Air Suspension
• Premium Sound
• Subzero Weather Package

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Seeing that with the recent price changes a new 100D with the same specs if $15,000 more, the price does not sound too bad for me - assuming new condition for the car. But those more intimately versed in the pricing debate can chime in... The features are more my domain, so some thoughts:

I don't think 75D and 90D differ much in battery-tech, nor am I aware of any upgrades available to 75D that 90D wouldn't get - quite the contrary, if 100D pack upgrades will be made available to smaller batteries, I would expect 90D to be the ones to get it more likely. But this is a topic with many unknowns (see e.g. 100KW battery upgrade now available $20k #159 onwards).

Two more points, though:

1) There has been a change in the battery connector, there is a possibility a new 75D might have that and an inventory 90D not, but this connector can be upgraded too... (Pics and Info: Inside the Tesla 100kWh Battery Pack | wk057's SkieNET)

2) The second thing is the upgrade in quickness that 75 kWh recently received (MX 0-60 Increases! (75D and 100D)). If this involved some change in hardware that were to have implications down the road, is still unknown.

Finally, there has been the talk that 90kWh battery especially has been susceptible to DC charging rate throttling by Tesla, suggesting something going wrong bit more often with this battery than the others. Whether or not a new 75 kWh has the same issue, I guess is not known really at this time (If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging). The 90 kWh battery, of course, has been the most "unlucky" one on the Performance side as well (Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits).

Features-wise there are some small details that have been in flux. 90D hasn't had the adaptive spoiler beyond some early 2016 deliveries, so the discontinuation of that from the P model would not have affected this car. It has a fixed spoiler... I guess there also isn't a chance anymore it might have ventilated seats as they were discontinued from the Premier Upgrades Package earlier this year, unless this particular unit has been sitting "on the shelf" for a while. This could be a detail worth checking, if it matters to you (does it have perforated seats = ventilated front seats). Another is whether or not it has the higher powered charger, a detail that Tesla has been going back and forth with recently... If these matter to you, might be worth checking what the status is on these items.

As the last point, seeing as you are in California I guess, your theoretical new 75 kWh order would very likely be built and ship within this quarter. So whatever changes Tesla might make into the product within this quarter might affect your order for better (and in some cases for the worse, e.g. sometimes a lessening/discontinuation of some feature has affected new orders as well). Given the Model 3 launch around this timeframe, changes to the product remain a distinct possiblity/risk.

Personally, I would wait until the dust settles on Model 3 launch and any effects that might have on a Model S/X, before buying any Tesla, but that's just me of course.

 

[bry_bry]

Seeing that with the recent price changes a new 100D with the same specs if $15,000 more, the price does not sound too bad for me - assuming new condition for the car. But those more intimately versed in the pricing debate can chime in... The features are more my domain, so some thoughts:

I don't think 75D and 90D differ much in battery-tech, nor am I aware of any upgrades available to 75D that 90D wouldn't get - quite the contrary, if 100D pack upgrades will be made available to smaller batteries, I would expect 90D to be the ones to get it more likely. But this is a topic with many unknowns (see e.g. 100KW battery upgrade now available $20k #159 onwards).

Two more points, though:

1) There has been a change in the battery connector, there is a possibility a new 75D might have that and an inventory 90D not, but this connector can be upgraded too... (Pics and Info: Inside the Tesla 100kWh Battery Pack | wk057's SkieNET)

2) The second thing is the upgrade in quickness that 75 kWh recently received (MX 0-60 Increases! (75D and 100D)). If this involved some change in hardware that were to have implications down the road, is still unknown.

Finally, there has been the talk that 90kWh battery especially has been susceptible to DC charging rate throttling by Tesla, suggesting something going wrong bit more often with this battery than the others. Whether or not a new 75 kWh has the same issue, I guess is not known really at this time (If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging). The 90 kWh battery, of course, has been the most "unlucky" one on the Performance side as well (Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits).

Features-wise there are some small details that have been in flux. 90D hasn't had the adaptive spoiler beyond some early 2016 deliveries, so the discontinuation of that from the P model would not have affected this car. It has a fixed spoiler... I guess there also isn't a chance anymore it might have ventilated seats as they were discontinued from the Premier Upgrades Package earlier this year, unless this particular unit has been sitting "on the shelf" for a while. This could be a detail worth checking, if it matters to you (does it have perforated seats = ventilated front seats). Another is whether or not it has the higher powered charger, a detail that Tesla has been going back and forth with recently... If these matter to you, might be worth checking what the status is on these items.

As the last point, seeing as you are in California I guess, your theoretical new 75 kWh order would very likely be built and ship within this quarter. So whatever changes Tesla might make into the product within this quarter might affect your order for better (and in some cases for the worse, e.g. sometimes a lessening/discontinuation of some feature has affected new orders as well). Given the Model 3 launch around this timeframe, changes to the product remain a distinct possiblity/risk.

Personally, I would wait until the dust settles on Model 3 launch and any effects that might have on a Model S/X, before buying any Tesla, but that's just me of course.

Thank you Anxiety Ranger! This is so comprehensive and has uncovered a potential deal breaker for me.

Two things standout from your tips:
1. Permanent throttle charging
-- I was planning to use a Supercharger twice a week (100 times a year) as my primary charging means. This is because a Supercharger is next to my office, and I currently live in an Apartment with L2 Chargers @ $0.25/kwh.
-- Hoping to charge for free by buying a Model X, and didn't realize that Superchargers are not designed for regular weekly use. I suppose science is science for battery tech.
-- I wish Tesla was more clear on the Policy: (1) floor limit on Throttling Charge; (2) recommended frequent use of Supercharging and effects -- i.e. what if I did a weekly Supercharger commute trip?

2. Waiting to see impact of Tesla Model 3 is probably a good idea, since the first batch is out 7/28.
-- my main motivation for buying now is to secure the $7500 tax credit. Realistically, I can wait 1-2 months, since the currently new build date is Sept. As long as I take delivery by Nov, I should be clear to get the tax credit.

They've giving me a loaner today for 24 hours, so I can see if the MX fits my lifestyle. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Brandon332]

@skibear I went to the Service Center with our Model X for it's 1 year service. They did many things to the car including many small upgrades (for example they switched out some seals and buttons to newer versions). Tesla is always innovating and refining their manufacturing, and this is reflected in cars which are produced more recently. Another example is the Falcon Wing doors. They changed the mechanisms inside newer builds so that they now close more smoothly and are more reliable long term. I would recommend a new order for this reason. Also, do you have a referral code? Make sure to use one of those to get $1000 off the price of the car and free supercharging for life.

 

[bry_bry]

@Brandon332 Thanks for sharing your anecdote. They did these small upgrades just to be nice? or they were part of Service fix?

I do have a referral code - definitely good thing. I've decided to wait 2-3 months to order a new 75D model. Like you and @AnxietyRanger pointed out, hardware improvements are ongoing (let dust settle with M3). I can wait.. as long as I make the tax credit.

 

[hmcgregoraz]

We have been very happy with our 90D.

If the supercharger is near your office, you could stop by and charge more often at a slower rate, or you could try and charge about once/week depending on your usage. The real key would be to keep the 90% or even 85% charge level, and not get tempted to go to 100%.

IMHO, we love the ventilated seats, if the inventory model has them, I would go with it.

-Harry

 

[ninefiveone]

If you're waiting because in 3 months there will be more improvements incorporated... you'll be in the same boat in 3 months.There will be yet more improvements in the pipeline. It does seem that Tesla backdates some of these changes to cars in the field when they come in for service but not all changes get backdated. Highly unlikely the new rear drive unit will get backdated in the field, for example. Change is becoming more incremental with each month but it's still coming fast enough that I don't see future changes as a big enough decision factor on their own.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

If you're waiting because in 3 months there will be more improvements incorporated... you'll be in the same boat in 3 months.

With Tesla there certainly are several changes each quarter, so at least in theory you are right. And there are certainly also people for whom such changes do not matter and they are just happy to get the current features.

That said, for those who do care about the updates, there are major events to look out for. Model 3 launch - similar to AP2 launch or D (and AP1) launch before it - is a major event that includes the possiblity of major repercussions to the entire S/X fleet as well. And one that we at least have some level of knowledge beforehand.

What waiting now allows is at least seeing what changes with Model 3 (e.g. is there a new SoC behind the big screen) and what, if anything, Tesla does to keep Model S/X fresh during this time of ramping up Model 3.

I mean, people who rushed into a purchase in Q2 missed out already on the performance improvements to keep Model S/X above Model 3. It doesn't seem impossible that more changes of that nature could come soon.

But returning to your point:

If nothing major appears for Model S/X in the 2-3 month period, I would take that as a harbinger that the upgrades have been delayed a bit and might come in Q4, for example. I might be inclined to wait a little longer still.

If someting major (e.g. new interior with new SoC for the big screen, HUD or whatever) appears for Model S/X in the 2-3 month period, then at least the likelihood that Q4 brings another big change seems somewhat lessened. So I might be inclined to pull the trigger.

Ah, model years... how I miss them.

 

[hmcgregoraz]

Just remember, there is always something better around the corner, but do you really not want to have the Model X for that amount of time.

The current Model X is awesome, will something better come out, yes. All of those that waited for AP2/switched to AP2, vs AP1 basically found that for now AP1 is still better, but it has less future.

I will admit that we went with a "new" order with AP2 vs an inventory with AP1 looking long term, but we also wanted the tow package, which almost zero inventory vehicles had, and at the time you could not add it after the fact. And March delivery did work out better for us $ wise for the purchase.

 

[Sidra]

Skibear,
Perhaps this response is too late, but here's my 2 cents. I suggest the 90. I Just got delivery last Sat for my MX 90D. It looks like you've done your research, but I just have to reiterate the issue with range. How much do you drive on a daily basis? I wasn't aware of the issues with charging to 100% at the time of my purchase. I found out Tesla recommends daily charges go no higher than 90%, or you risk significant long term degradation on the the battery life. I went with a 90, because obviously I wanted the extra range, and I only charge to 85% so I have potentially up to 75 kwh usage daily . If I had gotten a 75 then it would have been 63.75 kwh or equivalent to approx 71% of a 90 kwh sized battery.

Also, you need to factor in your driving characteristics and over all power usage. If you like to drive or accelerate quickly, keep your A/C at medium or higher, or even listen to your radio at high volumes (could be totally wrong on this one), you will see higher power usage that will significantly affect your range. For some, it's like a video game... let's see how efficient I can drive today. Others, they expect their $100K + car to provide an experience that is befitting of such a price. I tend to lean towards the latter. It's only 15 kwh difference, and yes, in terms of cost and time charging, it's the same for either car. But, for me, I rather not have to deal with driving the car down to say 20 percent or less on a daily basis. Obviously depending on your daily needs and driving behavior, this could vary wildly for you. I'd venture to say that the threshold for annual mileage is up to 10k for a 75D to make sense.

Again, my 2 cents.

 

[bry_bry]

Thanks @Sidra and to others on the thread. I ended up canceling my Inventory 90D order. Maybe order a 75D a bit down the road.

@Sidra - I drive about 22 miles a day. Not a lot - but lots of heavy bumper to bumper. If I move to a house (from my apartment) and can have dedicated overnight charging, it will be an easier decision. I initially thought I could rely on Supercharging near my office, which should not be a regular thing as others pointed out. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Sidra]

There's some killer deals on the 90s- anywhere from 10k to 15k (maybe higher) in savings. Free super charging for life and a$1k off with a referral code. Also, no additional cost for them to ship it to me - this is different than the transportation cost all cars have on their sticker. But I agree. There's no point in getting this car without a dedicated overnight charger.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

But I agree. There's no point in getting this car without a dedicated overnight charger.

Some have made it work using third-party chargers. If you drive little, you can get away with charging only maybe once a week at a mall or something.

But yes, I do not recommend Supercharging or CHAdeMO as a solution (especially on the 90 kWh), as the peak rate throttling thread has shown. The best way would be to find an AC charger you can make work for you...

If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

 

[DarkMatter]

If you want a 90D the inventory discounts on them are very good right now. You can get a fully loaded 90D for the same price as a medium optioned 75D. I know the OP has made their decision, just confirming in case anyone else is on the fence. Many of the inventory 90D cars are recent builds as well.