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Deciding on second EV, a non-Tesla

loanchau2k

Member
Nov 25, 2020
129
62
Fremont, CA
Thanks a lot for the feedback, guys. Now we all agree third-party charger is crab, I had the same bad experience last weekend, even in California. If California has an issue with charging, then the rest of the country would have the same issue. This helps me to lean toward buying a cheap compact EV for my second EV, bolt or used I3, I just use it for a daily commute and mainly charge at home.
 
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Mrbrock

Member
Mar 26, 2020
795
476
Napa, CA
Getting another Tesla for your commuter car is too boring but driving a bolt or leaf isn’t? Doesn’t make sense to me. Used SR+ Model 3. Perfect commuter car. Zippy for routes with no traffic and autopilot when you are in gridlock.

As for waiting for the Ioniq 5, it’s gonna be $50k+. And still lack charging infrastructure. It’s taken Tesla selling 200k+ cars per year for them to build out the supercharger network. No way any other brand gets there within 5 years and no one has plans to fund fast charging network in any major way. The only one doing a decent job is VW and that’s only because it’s penance for diesel gate. If you are going to wait 5 years, might as well get a boring Tesla and enjoy it for 5 years then switch to whatever dream car sounds good.
 

loanchau2k

Member
Nov 25, 2020
129
62
Fremont, CA
Getting another Tesla for your commuter car is too boring but driving a bolt or leaf isn’t? Doesn’t make sense to me. Used SR+ Model 3. Perfect commuter car. Zippy for routes with no traffic and autopilot when you are in gridlock.
Price, my friend. For sure M3 is a better car, but I can get leaf and bolt for under 20K. If I don't have MY, I would get a used Model 3 for sure. But since I have MY, it's hard for me to get excited about Model 3. So, I have to look at Model S/X, which is much more expensive.
 
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alexcue

Member
Aug 5, 2020
328
206
Los Angeles
Price, my friend. For sure M3 is a better car, but I can get leaf and bolt for under 20K. If I don't have MY, I would get a used Model 3 for sure. But since I have MY, it's hard for me to get excited about Model 3. So, I have to look at Model S/X, which is much more expensive.

If you look at the Bolt, one of my previous cars, make sure you test drive it. The seats on mine were horrible. Anything over 30 minutes drove me nuts and made me squirm. Now the new ones are supposed to be improved. YMMV
 

fireball08

Member
Feb 15, 2021
39
11
AZ
Price, my friend. For sure M3 is a better car, but I can get leaf and bolt for under 20K. If I don't have MY, I would get a used Model 3 for sure. But since I have MY, it's hard for me to get excited about Model 3. So, I have to look at Model S/X, which is much more expensive.
The BMWi3 is fun to drive as a commuter and it’s got that unique look. Some hate it and others love it. The deals are great on 2017 and newer, and you can get the more reasonable battery for range. I have not had much anxiety range issues since I plug in each night. The MY is going to be awesome for road trips.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,232
5,128
According to Ford it is more than EA: Ford says:
  • Greenlots
  • Electrify America
  • EV Connect
  • ChargePoint
  • FLO
  • EVgo
see: https://owner.ford.com/support/how-tos/ev/what-is-the-ev-fordpass-charging-network.html
To clarify, as you see on that page, it's talking about using the app to activate the chargers. The other comment was talking about just plugging in and charging (like Teslas), no app or any interaction with the charger required.

That requires a charger compatible with the "plug & charge" technology, which not all equipment is, and not all networks in that list offer. EA is the only network that have widely claimed they are supporting the technology.
Electrify America Simplifies Charging Experience with Innovative Plug&Charge Payment Technology
 

TSLA Pilot

Active Member
Mar 12, 2013
1,733
2,380
United States
I know, but I really don't like owning 2 cars with the same company. Basically, same look and feel, too boring. I know S and X is different than MY, but still the same feeling :) You want something completly different even though is inferior :). That's just me :)

Yes, of course.

And buying non-Tesla EV's helps Ford, BMW, Chevy/GM, et al, all sell more gas guzzling, GHG-dumping ICE vehicles, like huge trucks and SUV's, all of which shorten the lifespan of our only planet. Versus Tesla which sells nothing but 100% pure EV's, all of which help lengthen our chances of having a livable planet. And we only have one planet.

But, that's just me . . . .

 
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Paloent

New Member
Mar 18, 2021
1
4
Palo Alto, CA
Price, my friend. For sure M3 is a better car, but I can get leaf and bolt for under 20K. If I don't have MY, I would get a used Model 3 for sure. But since I have MY, it's hard for me to get excited about Model 3. So, I have to look at Model S/X, which is much more expensive.
Have you looked at lease options? If you are in the Bay Area, it is an incredible time to lease - I just got leased an Etron as a second car with 74k MSRP on a 3 year / 12k miles per year lease for a total cost of 20,400 including all taxes, fees, and prepaid maintenance over three years.

If you want a better deal, but a more boring car most Bay Area dealerships are offering 3 years of a Chevy Bolt for a single payment of between 4200-6000 with tax and fees included (meaning effective cost of $116/month)

Depending on your priorities, I think you would get a better deal right now with a lease than with buying. Keep in mind non-Tesla EV's depreciate MUCH more rapidly than Tesla's, so buying is less advantageous.
 

loanchau2k

Member
Nov 25, 2020
129
62
Fremont, CA
@Paloent , thank you so much. The information is very helpful for me. I will look at the leasing. Now I think it makes sense for me to lease since 2 or 3 years from now, we have much more EVs to choose, I. then can buy a good one after I return my lease
 

uujjj2

Member
Aug 11, 2020
423
1,594
San Jose, CA
I think an EV-focused manufacturer will give the best experience. If you want a non-Tesla, the best of the bunch look like Rivian and Lucid. Rivian will have their own charging network like Tesla, while Lucid is supposed to be integrated with Electrify America. But unless you're an early adopter I'd wait at least a year before buying from a new company.

EA's network is on par with Tesla from around 5 years ago. Here in California it's great, but in the rest of the US EA has a lot of gaps. In 5-6 years I'm sure EA will be great. EA is also expensive compared to Supercharging, and that's probably never going to change.

Of the legacy automaker EVs, Ford's Mach-E supposedly has the best charging experience, like others say. The Mach-E is supposed to work with EA and a few other networks the same just-plug-and-charge way that Supercharging works on Teslas.
 

El joe

Member
Jan 29, 2019
500
384
Bay Area, CA
I think an EV-focused manufacturer will give the best experience. If you want a non-Tesla, the best of the bunch look like Rivian and Lucid. Rivian will have their own charging network like Tesla, while Lucid is supposed to be integrated with Electrify America. But unless you're an early adopter I'd wait at least a year before buying from a new company.

EA's network is on par with Tesla from around 5 years ago. Here in California it's great, but in the rest of the US EA has a lot of gaps. In 5-6 years I'm sure EA will be great. EA is also expensive compared to Supercharging, and that's probably never going to change.

Of the legacy automaker EVs, Ford's Mach-E supposedly has the best charging experience, like others say. The Mach-E is supposed to work with EA and a few other networks the same just-plug-and-charge way that Supercharging works on Teslas.
Not sure how the SC worked five years ago, but when I had a Bolt, EA and EVGo were really hit-or-miss for me. There are a lot of chargers nationwide (and particularly here in Nor CA), but about half the time I tried to use a DCFC, they failed me. You pretty much have to check PlugShare out before you start taking a journey of any length that might require an away-from-home charge and map that out ahead of time. And as you mentioned, they can be pricey.

I really liked my Bolt and would strongly recommend it as a non-Tesla EV for someone, but that charging infrastructure is something that is really hard to get used to.
 
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Automobilist

Member
Feb 18, 2021
59
53
Orange County, CA
I think the next few years will be telling for non-Tesla EVs. Now that Ford and VW have their first “mass market” EVs out, these charging network issues will start to stand out more.

Non-technical and non-enthusiast drivers will not be very forgiving of being left stranded with their families by their EVs because of flaky charging. It’s one of those things that could quickly sour a lot of people on EVs and limit their adoption in the US if it isn’t addressed (even if the cars are otherwise great).

Ford and VW will probably end up needing to take ownership of the infrastructure and fix it if they want to succeed.
 

Mrbrock

Member
Mar 26, 2020
795
476
Napa, CA
I think it is pretty telling that VW has not had a successful roll out and that their charging network is lacking. Here in Napa we have two superchargers, 22 stalls total. There is one EA station, 4 stalls. Each stall has two cords (3 of the 4 are duplicates) but they are placed in such a way that that can only serve one stall. The DC fast charging just isn’t going to happen. VW wouldn’t have this network if they hadn’t got caught cheating.
 

DanDi58

Member
Jun 22, 2020
918
696
Dayton NJ
I think if it were me and I was looking for a (relatively) inexpensive, non-Tesla BEV for running around town, I'd consider either the Bolt or the ID.4. The ID.4 will get you the $7500 federal tax credit, so they could be had for low $30k's. I would want something that was designed from the ground-up as an EV, so a used eGolf or any of the current Hyundai/Kia BEV's would be out for me. I'm not really a fan of the Leaf (and the previous generation has serious battery degradation issues) or the Mach-E.
 

Johnny Vector

Member
Jun 21, 2020
177
243
Maryland
I think if it were me and I was looking for a (relatively) inexpensive, non-Tesla BEV for running around town, I'd consider either the Bolt or the ID.4. The ID.4 will get you the $7500 federal tax credit, so they could be had for low $30k's. I would want something that was designed from the ground-up as an EV, so a used eGolf or any of the current Hyundai/Kia BEV's would be out for me. I'm not really a fan of the Leaf (and the previous generation has serious battery degradation issues) or the Mach-E.
You can get a fully loaded 2021 Bolt Premier for $26k at my local Chevy dealer (Bowie, MD). Plus destination charge and tax of course, but right now they sure are cheap compared to what I paid 3 years ago. Probably not true everywhere, but look for deals and you might find one.
 

uujjj2

Member
Aug 11, 2020
423
1,594
San Jose, CA
I think if it were me and I was looking for a (relatively) inexpensive, non-Tesla BEV for running around town, I'd consider either the Bolt or the ID.4. The ID.4 will get you the $7500 federal tax credit, so they could be had for low $30k's. I would want something that was designed from the ground-up as an EV, so a used eGolf or any of the current Hyundai/Kia BEV's would be out for me. I'm not really a fan of the Leaf (and the previous generation has serious battery degradation issues) or the Mach-E.
Interesting perspective. I'd actually flip your recommended/not recommended list. If I were in the market for a new EV and I irrationally insisted it be from a traditional automaker, the Leaf and e-Golf would top my list. The Leaf has a great reputation for reliability and finally has decent range. And the e-Golf is a fantastic value in the used market for an in-town-only runabout. On the other hand, while the Bolt was a breakthrough in price/performance when it was new 5 years ago, it's not that nice of a car. The ID.4 and Mach-E are comparable in price and functionality, but while the Mach-E has smooth integration with EA fast chargers, the ID.4 has a terrible user experience with the same chargers, heavily tipping the scales in favor of the Ford.
 
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Mrbrock

Member
Mar 26, 2020
795
476
Napa, CA
If you get an ID.4 and you already have a Tesla you will hate it. My wife was super excited about it, already a VW owner, signed up, went for a test drive and nothing worked like it was supposed to. This was a major event geared to get people to sign up and order them and it was not good. They are not ready. The software is not ready, the car had issues with controls, one of the 4 cars had a broken seatbelt (drivers) so they had to take it out of the lineup to get fixed at the local dealer. No one pedal driving, car seemed lethargic and boaty. One of the specialists lied to us (maybe unknowlingly but likely a flat out lie) about the range for the forthcoming AWD version. RWD is 250 miles at 200hp, he said the AWD would be rated at 230 miles at 300hp. That's a head scratcher. 50% more powerful but only a 10% drop in range on the same battery?
 

frankvb

Supporting Member
Feb 29, 2020
876
544
San Diego, CA
That's a head scratcher. 50% more powerful but only a 10% drop in range on the same battery?
That's actually believable - not too different from Tesla RWD vs. AWD (hard to compare now as there isn't a Model 3 or Y with the same battery size between the RWD and AWD). Of course once you start using that additional 50% of power it won't be quite as good :) But if you drive both in the same way it should work.
 
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