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Decreasing rated range.

mknox

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2012
10,103
1,867
Toronto, ON
Also of note: The reported 100% Range of my vehicle dropped from 424 km to 400 km during the first year of operation. However, I have not seen any further decline in reported range throughout this winter. I've heard that the chemistry being used tends to drop a bit at first then level off for a long time. So far that is looking to be confirmed.

That is almost to the km the change I have seen over 1 year as well.
 
Been a while since I chimed in on anything so nice to see you all alive and kicking on here.

Just recently I noticed a drop in full charge that seems fairly significant. When I got my 60 MS the rated range was 208. About 15 months later and just over 10K miles on it, a full range charge gets me 182 miles. Pretty significant difference. I asked Tesla about this and after 4 or 5 emails it was pretty much a clown show. The ultimate answer I got consisted of instructions on how to switch from Rated to Ideal range display, which had nothing to do with my question.

I will have to try the supposed rebalancing techniques and see what happens.

Cheers

PS-Ever since the slider was available I have tried to charge to more like 60-75% for daily use. If this indeed promotes better long term battery life at the expense of short term range reduction due to poor cell balance then I should be a good test case for this theory and should see a significant improvement in trip charge max range as a result. I don't have long trips coming up soon but next time I do I will go through the recommended procedure and report back.

Cheers
 
Last edited:

islandbayy

Active Member
Feb 25, 2013
2,650
1,024
Greendale, Wisconsin
Just want to chime in on another update on my 60kW pack. With my "abuse" (using the crap out of my car), at 25,000 miles, my pack shows between 206 and 208 Rated on a 100% charge. Hard to get a accurate reading here in Wisconsin due to the cold skewing the numbers, so I can only measure after supercharging, otherwise my pack has cooled too much before charging complete, and the car adjusts range for cold pack temps. I have not been doing many Range charges lately since my return from Niagara Falls, and it does not appear that running my car to exhausted requiring a tow to a supercharger after car sitting at 5-10 degrees F overnight has caused any issues.

EDIT: Summary: 60kW pack, 8 Months 3 weeks Ownership, 25k Miles, 206-208 Rated at 100% on Warm Pack. Stone cold pack = 189-192 at 100%
 

SFOTurtle

Active Member
Jan 21, 2013
1,076
74
Los Altos, CA
Been a while since I chimed in on anything so nice to see you all alive and kicking on here.

Just recently I noticed a drop in full charge that seems fairly significant. When I got my 60 MS the rated range was 208. About 15 months later and just over 10K miles on it, a full range charge gets me 182 miles. Pretty significant difference. I asked Tesla about this and after 4 or 5 emails it was pretty much a clown show. The ultimate answer I got consisted of instructions on how to switch from Rated to Ideal range display, which had nothing to do with my question.

I will have to try the supposed rebalancing techniques and see what happens.

Cheers

PS-Ever since the slider was available I have tried to charge to more like 60-75% for daily use. If this indeed promotes better long term battery life at the expense of short term range reduction due to poor cell balance then I should be a good test case for this theory and should see a significant improvement in trip charge max range as a result. I don't have long trips coming up soon but next time I do I will go through the recommended procedure and report back.

Cheers

Your numbers are, I think, the lowest for those of us with 60s posting on the forum. It sounds like your pack has never balanced since you too delivery of it, especially if you're keeping it charged to no more than 60-70% SOC max. I assume you've done few if any range charges since taking delivery.
 

rlang59

Member
Feb 27, 2013
945
30
US
204.

What do you guys think? Should I subject this brand new car to a max charge just to see where it nets out?

My rated stops at 174 and my Ideal is 204. I'm even more convinced that the rated got screwed up after the 5.6 update (not 4.5 where standard dropped from 93% to 90% where 10 miles rated disappeared. Had that not happened I would have been 184 and 204 about the same as the loaner you had.
 

SFOTurtle

Active Member
Jan 21, 2013
1,076
74
Los Altos, CA
My rated stops at 174 and my Ideal is 204. I'm even more convinced that the rated got screwed up after the 5.6 update (not 4.5 where standard dropped from 93% to 90% where 10 miles rated disappeared. Had that not happened I would have been 184 and 204 about the same as the loaner you had.

At 90% SOC, correct?
 

glhs272

Unnamed plug faced villian
Aug 21, 2013
909
564
Burlington, WI
Been a while since I chimed in on anything so nice to see you all alive and kicking on here.

Just recently I noticed a drop in full charge that seems fairly significant. When I got my 60 MS the rated range was 208. About 15 months later and just over 10K miles on it, a full range charge gets me 182 miles. Pretty significant difference. I asked Tesla about this and after 4 or 5 emails it was pretty much a clown show. The ultimate answer I got consisted of instructions on how to switch from Rated to Ideal range display, which had nothing to do with my question.

I will have to try the supposed rebalancing techniques and see what happens.

Cheers

PS-Ever since the slider was available I have tried to charge to more like 60-75% for daily use. If this indeed promotes better long term battery life at the expense of short term range reduction due to poor cell balance then I should be a good test case for this theory and should see a significant improvement in trip charge max range as a result. I don't have long trips coming up soon but next time I do I will go through the recommended procedure and report back.

Cheers

I am sure with time and patience, your pack rebalanced will get 206 to 208 rated miles just fine.
 

tomas

Out of warranty...
Oct 22, 2012
4,253
3,837
Chicago/Montecito
90% is not 90%. On other thread, someone did the math and demonstrated the 90% tick on slider is actually 87.5%. All of which happened in a software release, so it is not apples and apples to compare "90%" charge today to "normal" charge back before the slider.

Rlang, your numbers do not seem disturbing. To me, anyway.
 
Last edited:

Klaus

Member
Apr 20, 2013
513
62
90% is not 90%. On other thread, someone did the math and demonstrated the 90% tick on slider is actually 97.5%. All of which happened in a software release, so it is not apples and apples to compare "90%" charge today to "normal" charge back before the slider.

Rlang, your numbers do not seem disturbing. To me, anyway.

87.5% ?
 
90% is not 90%. On other thread, someone did the math and demonstrated the 90% tick on slider is actually 87.5%. All of which happened in a software release, so it is not apples and apples to compare "90%" charge today to "normal" charge back before the slider.

Rlang, your numbers do not seem disturbing. To me, anyway.

Doubt it. VisibleTesla and other Tesla REST API tools report a 90% battery SOC when a 90% standard charge is selected on the slider.
Now whether the 90% SOC algorithm is very accurate or not, including or excluding battery reserves, that's another question...
 

tomas

Out of warranty...
Oct 22, 2012
4,253
3,837
Chicago/Montecito
Doubt it. VisibleTesla and other Tesla REST API tools report a 90% battery SOC when a 90% standard charge is selected on the slider.
Now whether the 90% SOC algorithm is very accurate or not, including or excluding battery reserves, that's another question...

well, yep. I show 250 rated @ range charge on A battery w/15 months and 13000 mi. When I do charge at any tick on slider, be it 90%, 80, 70, 60 I get less than that % of 250. Far less. That's why I can't buy balancing as the whole problem, algorithm is what I suspect has largest impact.
 
well, yep. I show 250 rated @ range charge on A battery w/15 months and 13000 mi. When I do charge at any tick on slider, be it 90%, 80, 70, 60 I get less than that % of 250. Far less. That's why I can't buy balancing as the whole problem, algorithm is what I suspect has largest impact.

Well, that phenomenon is because the battery curve is non-linear. You are charging to % coulombs of charge that the battery can store, not % of maximum rated miles you can drive.
The lower the battery charge the fewer miles per coulomb (for same watt power, battery current goes up at lower voltage, current -> dQ/dt goes up, i.e stored electrons get used up faster)
 

rlang59

Member
Feb 27, 2013
945
30
US
90% is not 90%. On other thread, someone did the math and demonstrated the 90% tick on slider is actually 87.5%. All of which happened in a software release, so it is not apples and apples to compare "90%" charge today to "normal" charge back before the slider.

Rlang, your numbers do not seem disturbing. To me, anyway.

Me either and I wasn't trying to convey otherwise. I am just pointing out how far off the rated range is and how inaccurate I believe it to be. In my case I get an ideal of 231 at a 100% charge which tells me no degradation, but the rated is 197-200 would tell me I have some. People are getting all worked up about losing range, out of balance, etc and they are all using the rated number, (except for AmpedRealtor) they should be using the ideal number if they really want to track this.

Also back before the slider it was ~93% according to REST data, today it is 90% also according to REST.
 

tomas

Out of warranty...
Oct 22, 2012
4,253
3,837
Chicago/Montecito
Well, that phenomenon is because the battery curve is non-linear. You are charging to % coulombs of charge that the battery can store, not % of maximum rated miles you can drive.
The lower the battery charge the fewer miles per coulomb (for same watt power, battery current goes up at lower voltage, current -> dQ/dt goes up, i.e stored electrons get used up faster)

Awesome, I try to learn something new every day, and today you obliged.
 

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