So far I've seen a slight decrease in rated range on 6.0
I suppose it could be unrelated since the weather has also cooled off
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So far I've seen a slight decrease in rated range on 6.0
I suppose it could be unrelated since the weather has also cooled off
92-93% according to REST API logs
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Yes. 220 -> 239 @ 90% across the transition to 6.0 firmware.
Is there any chance that the miles display was switched to ideal instead of rated? Those numbers look just about correct for your original numbers switched into ideal.
As a side note, the 242-245 (90%) charge that people remember is from old software that was really "standard" charge (vs. range), and charged the battery to ~93% not 90%. I don't know of any battery that charged at any point into the 240s rated at the settable 90% charge.
Peter
As a side note, the 242-245 (90%) charge that people remember is from old software that was really "standard" charge (vs. range), and charged the battery to ~93% not 90%. I don't know of any battery that charged at any point into the 240s rated at the settable 90% charge.
Peter
Good point! 93 v 90 is not comparable. Pretty close, as I am now seeing 237@90% 18k miles, 5.11, "A" pack. Which seems pretty darned good. Never run it to empty to find out how much is real, though!
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not true, the loaner I am driving has 3800mi on it and charges to 242-3 @ 90% ... almost 100% was at 273 mi rated. this is a 5.12 flavor
Correct, "A" pack. I charge to 90% daily. 1 month ago on a similar trip to St.Louis when charging at the Tesla Service Center it charged to 271 after getting down to about 20 miles rated at the end of the trip up.
mknox
Well-Known Member
Okay, maybe that's it. For the last (at least) 6 months, I've been charging to 70% daily and drawing down to 30 or 40% by the end of the day. I may go back to daily 90% charging.
I don't think today's firmware versions are comparable to the early versions, because they have been changed so much in the two years. When my car was new(first charge) it stopped at 237 miles for the standard(93% back then) charge. It eventually topped out at 242-243 rated, before the switch to the slider.
There is a crowd who says that the 70/30 cycle is IDEAL because your battery averages 50% SOC, which is healthier in long term. If you go to 90/50 cycle, then you are averaging 70% SOC. You will have better rated range... nobody knows if that is because of balancing, better estimating algorithm... at consistent 90% charging (for weeks). I do not have the EE or Chemistry competency to judge whether the 50% SOC crowd is correct. Tesla Motors says 90 daily is OK, and likely would not have provided the slider at all if it were not for the EPA issue (EPA would have used 90% to rate range if it was considered "normal" charge).
I set my charge limit to 90% (instead of less) for two reasons:
1. It's the default of the car. If there is any setting Tesla should stand behind strongly (with regards to warranty and generally), it's the default settings.
2. Part of why I bought the car was because it had > 200mi range. (Not the 185.5 @ 70% using the EPA 265 number.)
I have the luxury of leaving the car at 50% most of the time since my local trips are so short, and only charging to 80 or 90 when I'm planning on doing some longer drives down to Denver or up to the mountains. I did get caught once at low power when a quick emergency trip was needed, but I guess that's not bad when spread over 2 years of ownership. I wonder if all this dancing on the slider will make any difference in the long run...
It will be difficult to tell if my true range has changed since Tesla seems to change the the ideal and rated range calculations with every firmware update, and the original 92 or 93% default "notch" on the slider has gone away. With the Leaf it is much easier since my local drives use up most of the range in the winter. At this point not much left to lose.
It will be difficult to tell if my true range has changed since Tesla seems to change the the ideal and rated range calculations with every firmware update, and the original 92 or 93% default "notch" on the slider has gone away. With the Leaf it is much easier since my local drives use up most of the range in the winter. At this point not much left to lose.
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ddenboer
MODEL X #1770
I charge to 90% every two days (drive 90 miles a day with 45k miles on my car but about 15k miles on this second A pack). I have been seeing decreasing miles for the last year, with my old pack and my refurb A.
On my service center advice, I did a full charge on the weekend and got 242 miles rated range for the 100% charge (VisibleTesla says it was 99% though).
After two days of gentle driving (highway mostly at ~70mph), my average energy usage is 292 Wh/mi for total usage of 53.0 kWh. Rated range after that was only 34 miles (33.8 on VisibleTesla). SOC % was 14.0
To summarize:
99% charge showed 242 miles of range
181.4 miles driven, using 53.0 kWh (average 292 Wh/mi)
33.8 miles rated range left (SOC of 14%)
Definitely having some problems here...
On my service center advice, I did a full charge on the weekend and got 242 miles rated range for the 100% charge (VisibleTesla says it was 99% though).
After two days of gentle driving (highway mostly at ~70mph), my average energy usage is 292 Wh/mi for total usage of 53.0 kWh. Rated range after that was only 34 miles (33.8 on VisibleTesla). SOC % was 14.0
To summarize:
99% charge showed 242 miles of range
181.4 miles driven, using 53.0 kWh (average 292 Wh/mi)
33.8 miles rated range left (SOC of 14%)
Definitely having some problems here...
I have a Nov'12 P85 with A pack. I used to get over 265 on Range and 240-245 on max Daily charge up until I had approximately 14K miles last year and then the firmware which gave us the option of less than max Daily charge came out and I started charging at about 60% or so. I saw my range drop to 250 on a Range charge and about 230 or so on max Daily and now going down to under 220 on a max Daily charge. I haven't done a Range charge in a while but adding 10% to max Daily of 218-220 would give me about 240 and the car has about 23K miles. So, it seems like as many have stated in this thread the obvious reason for losing range is not charging to max Daily as we used to when the car was first introduced in 2012. I agree with brianman above, I bought this car because it was supposed to have a max range of 265 EPA and 300 ideal and not 25 miles or so under that. I bought both - the 8 years service and extended warranty. Tesla warranties the battery to 8 years and unlimited miles but it is interesting that they specifically don't cover the loss of range. Obviously Tesla knew something we didn't and that is - these batteries are going to lose their range like they are. If we don't charge to max Daily they will lose range AND if we do charge to max Daily the battery will deteriorate. So, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Although I have had a myriad of problems with the car including replacing the inverter and numerous other issues i don't want to get into, I chalked it up to being an early adopter with Vin: 01586. I love the way the car drives and all the great features etc. but this loss of range in the battery really bothers me. This is just plain not right.
i cannot draw same conclusion from your facts. The assertion that charging to 90% regularly harms battery is chatter. Tesla says OK. So if you charge to 90% for a couple of weeks, what do you have? For me, and I've experienced exact same as you with a year of 60% charging, after a couple of weeks of 90% charging, I'm back up to 240 @ 90% which implies NO degradation. 18k mi, A battery.
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Todd Burch
14-Year Member
Tomas is saying that charging to 90% over several weeks' time DID improve his range.
Sorry typo, I meant I am seeing the same as Super Gizmo.
I've been daily maxing for 2 months, and have a 90% charge of 220. Range didn't increase during that time. The range started dropping as soon as I limited my daily charge to 70-80% back in v5.9 or whichever version introduced it.
I've been daily maxing for 2 months, and have a 90% charge of 220. Range didn't increase during that time. The range started dropping as soon as I limited my daily charge to 70-80% back in v5.9 or whichever version introduced it.
Tesla has said for a long time they were expecting 70-80% of the original range after 8 years/100,000 miles. Back in the Roadster days, they were forecasting quite a bit worse than that (A Bit About Batteries | Blog | Tesla Motors), but the S is better maintained.
Your car's rate of degradation is about on par with that 70-80% expectation.
It's baffling to me that anyone would come in with the mind set that batteries won't degrade. It's not like batteries are a new mystery technology. We've known batteries degrade for literally centuries now. Even specifically Lithium Ion batteries, the are decades of experience/discussion about it. Hell, gas cars have batteries and people know they degrade.
That criticism said, Tesla used to have an FAQ section on their website that very specifically answers with that 70-80% number. I can't find that FAQ anymore nor anything about degradation expectations on their website and that's a touch disturbing.
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