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islandbayy
Active Member
take it to service immediately! please do not wait! if you have failing modules, you're running the risk of getting stranded somewhere.
ken830
Model S 85, Model 3 Performance, Model X LongRange
I've been complaining about decreasing range all summer, but they insist that everything is normal. And I actually got the car back from a service visit with 265 miles of range over the summer. They said my 80% charge was good, but will show decreased range. So that's why I started charging to 90%. I've already contacted service. But I'm actually on a road trip now and it feels like driving a really slow-charging 60kWh car because I have an A pack and can't charge past 90kW. So frustrating.
I had the same problem. After taking the car into SC a few times they finally found the fix - a new master charger.
Worked for a few day at 40 amps and now it is back to 30. My 90% charge had dropped to 220 from 238 because I was charging daily in the middle of daily charge. Now it has gone up to 226 after 2 months of charging at 90% whenever I charge. Hopefully it will go up further although I doubt it. I have a 2012 P85 with about 26K miles.
This is a very large thread, 193 pages! I decided to create a google doc excel type page that everybody can edit even without a google account.
Would you all care to share your information? I put mine in:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tOzNFv7iVdLBAFP9ygqiULNXOdJsfXUzJ89J7MTF8hA/edit?usp=sharing
Would you all care to share your information? I put mine in:
32500 miles with 243 rated range at 100%
You have the choice to put it in miles or km. You guessed right, I am a Canadian
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tOzNFv7iVdLBAFP9ygqiULNXOdJsfXUzJ89J7MTF8hA/edit?usp=sharing
Just a few months ago I wrote about a sudden loss of range that occurred over a weekend trip:
Sudden Loss of Range
It seems now after my recent trip I have regained all of those miles (and possibly more) after several deep pack cycles. The odd thing is my W/mi for the trip certainly weren't any better this time than last so I can't figure out why I wouldn't have pulled the same kWh from the pack. And yet something must have been different this time.
So anyway perhaps those of you that have seen gradually decreasing range should consider a trip with several deep discharge cycles. Curious if anyone has had a similar experience?
Sudden Loss of Range
It seems now after my recent trip I have regained all of those miles (and possibly more) after several deep pack cycles. The odd thing is my W/mi for the trip certainly weren't any better this time than last so I can't figure out why I wouldn't have pulled the same kWh from the pack. And yet something must have been different this time.
So anyway perhaps those of you that have seen gradually decreasing range should consider a trip with several deep discharge cycles. Curious if anyone has had a similar experience?
Exactly my experience. Last week's trip to the SoCal desert after one range charge at home, and about 8 Supercharges, two to 95+%, others to 90%. Several discharges into the mid 20s mi, others to 40-50s mi. My typical 90% range on UMC before the trip was 179 mi, now it's 184, this morning even 185. This is higher than when new. It's all an estimate, though
ken830
Model S 85, Model 3 Performance, Model X LongRange
Well, here's an update to my last post in this thread.... I have an A-battery and decreased range after one of the earlier firmware updates. The service center insists everything is healthy with the battery. And last summer, they even returned the car back to me with 265 rated miles. That went down fairly rapidly because we charge to 80% nightly. It's gotten a bit worse lately, so I decided to charge to 90%. Well, we couldn't get more than 180 mile or so at 90% and it kept dropping. By the time of our road trip to SoCal in December, 100% charges were only yielding 209 rated miles. Contacted Palo Alto service center and they agreed to look at it when I returned and refused to work with a local service center to have the car serviced while in SoCal. On my return trip home, I stopped at my first Supercharger and the car simply refused to start charging. Every time I plugged-in, it would say, "charge complete". So I had to drive it to the LA service center and drive a loaner home. They put a loaner B pack in, and I have literally never seen such amazing range on my car. 245 miles at 90%!! I couldn't even get that at 100% on my A pack. I wish I could keep this battery.
For the last few software updates, my A battery has had around 245 rated miles @ 90% right after the upgrade. Then, it has migrated down to reality (around 229 @ 90). They hypothesis on this forum (now confirmed by service manager at service center) is that software updates "factory reset" the algorithm. Then, over several charges, it "finds" the right values given condition of the specific battery. So, in short, the B battery range may not be real! Hope they fix your A or replace!
The real world difference between an A-pack limited to 90 kW and a newer battery only shows in the first 10 min and only if you arrive pretty empty and only if no one else is charging on the shared SC. The average charge rate at a Supercharger is 70 kW. Even in ideal conditions it's 2-3 min of a difference.
Several sources.
I kept track of the average charge rate when I go to Superchargers. I have done many road trips I would estimate about half of my 32k miles are done with Superchargers. The average is around 70 kW from real world usage.
Here is some data in a chart that shows very similar numbers P85D trip SF-Portland: detailed data on range and charging
Someone here in the forum did a side by side Supercharger test with an A pack and a newer pack. He put together a graph showing the charge speed. The difference was pretty small and after a certain time both are identical. And again, that was starting from a low state of charge and not sharing a Supercharger. In the real world it isn't that way all the time. If you do a search here in the forum, you'll find the thread.
Here is one graph: Older Teslas limited to 90kW Supercharging - Page 129
still trying to find the other where it's actually a real side by side.
PS: For the past few months I have never been able to charge at more than 105 kW, no matter where or what state of charge. Not sure why, my car used to charge at 120 kW when it was low. So it looks like getting the full 120 is not a given all the time.
@ken830 - How many miles were on your A pack? Based on your description I'd say you had a failed module. Please advise us on the outcome.
For me the equilibration period after a firmware update is usually on the order of a few hours and does not require charging.
For me the equilibration period after a firmware update is usually on the order of a few hours and does not require charging.
Yes, I lived through that whole thread and all of the various tests, and over the last couple of years have tried to put away any vitriol on the topic, but it does come out now and then. That's why I questioned your very confidently stated assertion.
True, differences in charging speed (between A batteries and all later batteries) vary depending upon starting/ending SOC and actual level the SC is able to pump out. But I believe all of the tests (and even Tesla's unproven "4 minute difference between 20 and 80%" assertion) have shown something significantly greater than "2-3 minutes" difference for a near-full charge.
When you post something like that, just keep in mind there are a whole bunch of us "A" battery owners whose blood pressure goes up when someone with a later battery tries to trivialize this issue. My question to you, if you think it's no big deal: you wanna come over to my house and do a battery swap?
mknox
Well-Known Member
Yes, it's particularly irksome for me. My March 2013 car came with an "A" battery while pretty much everyone else I know who got their cars from about January 2013 on got "B" packs.
How is referring to real world experience and numbers from side by side test 'trivializing'? I do understand your point of view, but I think a 4 min difference, only in the worst case scenario, isn't a big deal. In average real world use it's even less. Time moves on and Tesla is always improving things. They added folding mirrors at some point. They cut the price of the HPWC in half, they added auto pilot hardware which my car doesn't have. Just a few months after I got my car. I will never have auto pilot or any of the added safety features that other got for free. It will continue to happen.
To answer your question about swapping my battery with yours? How much is it worth it to you? If you convince Tesla to do it and make me a reasonable offer, I will trade you my battery for yours.
ken830
Model S 85, Model 3 Performance, Model X LongRange
I always charged to "standard" until the charge slider was introduced, then set it to 80%. The range kept dropping slowly until this incident. It was just over 37,000 miles when it refused to charge, but the range began to drop dramatically before 35,000 miles. I'll keep you guys posted.
I feel exactly the same way. My April 2013 car has an "A" Battery pack when earlier cars got "B". But what adds an extra layer of frustration for me is that I had a February 2013 car and I was certain that car had a "B" pack. Too bad Tesla bought that car back because of the rear-facing seat fiasco. Also, my first car had fog lights and this one doesn't, and I don't "qualify" for the foglight retrofit like others because they felt like they already did me a "favor" for buying the first car back -- but I never asked for it! Oh, and don't get me started about the lack of springy fingers in the cup holders or the chrome trunk inserts that my first car had. I think the March-April lot of 85kWh cars is the worst batch of all... None of the freebie extras of the early cars, none of the new features, and got old batteries to boot.
I can only hope.
I don't feel the same way about parking sensors, or the new seats, or the auto-pilot hardware, or the high-res dash screen, or the Primacy tires, or folding mirrors, or any of those hundreds of improvements precisely because of the fact that they are always improving things. But I am bothered because there were early cars with "A" batteries, then newer cars with "B" batteries, then my car comes along with an "A" battery (WTF?), then they go back to "B" and "D" and etc....
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